PROMETHEUS_ts

Join Date 02/2005

3D map Please!

I do not like the 2d hex map

Hello , I absolutely dislike the 3d hexagon map , it doesn't make me feel like in space but on a flat terrain with some painted stars over .

IT feels like civilization rather than a space experience .

Also all those big huge suns with all planets visible ....

IMHO

The galaxy shoudl be made 3d , navigable in 3d with Only stars and larger celestial objects visible , then when you focus on one star it highlights only the Sun and the proximity stars reacheable , then if you double click or select the sun it opens a new 3d map of the whole system, ......that's how I always liked and wanted a space game . not a bidimensional hex map but a whole 3d space .

if it has issues then please solve them but do not serve a flat boring and ugly 2d map please .

Also stoo with the cartoonish look and all bright colors, on map , please use realistic belieavable colors .

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EvilMonk3y

Join Date 03/2008

I very much doubt that what you are after will ever be done by this game. Gal Civ is just not that type of thing and it is not the direction that the developers have ever indicated towards, it's a tile/hex/grid based game at its heart.

I would personally not want it any other way. I wouldn't say the game is 'cartoonish' either, it is stylized in a certain way but I like that as well

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Achronous

Join Date 03/2006

+29

Perhaps the Sins of Solar Empires series would appeal to you better than GalCiv. GalCiv is a turn based strategy game better served by a 2D map. In actual reality as well, the length of the galaxy is so much bigger than the height that it's basically 2D

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SoaSE is also 2D, the units just float up and down a bit from the 2D plane, but it's still played in 2 dimensions.

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parrottmath

Join Date 03/2008

+206

The addition of 3d might be a bit much on the user interface. It is difficult to give commands from a 2d screen on a 3d map. Also, the amount of data that needs to be computed from 2d to 3d grows rather quickly.

In short, I support 3d maps, but I don't think the technology to functionally run 3d from a tactical overlay is there yet.

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econundrum1

Join Date 04/2007

+36

Thanks for your opinion, already been discussed and it isn't going to be changed. You'll have to get used to it or look for another game.

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Its just ugly the hex based , I have tried many 4x games so far and all the ones that had 2d maps honestly felt flat and not immersive .

But this is reaching even worst .

With the hex grid and hex angled movements , with the big box to catch like a pacman entity ...

I remember instead other games with 3d maps that were much more immersive . I do not see any problem with 3d and honestly its the direction developers should go for as most other 4x developers are also taking .

The problems rised about 3d beeing confuzional for some member is just poor programming and organization . Do it good and it will be better.

3d is the way those games shoudl go and I am not talking of realtime that's another thing .

Hex game is a huge step back . I remember even Masters of Orion II was not having hexes despite flat map at least looked more immersive ... but hexes ??? Cmon ...

Seriously hex flat map ? Its just so downgrading and ugly make it feel like a game for phones or from 20 years ago .

Its time that 4c games get done on 3 dimensions and it can be done very well . Just with some smartness in the design .

Samples of 3d maps .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7T9DUob1W0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cLeXj4p03k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbDQ-tYjpLg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QCmvsKSXic

The best 3d map so far I have tested tried and is perfectly intuitive and navigable is the one from Universe Sandbox .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6shurn2W0w

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DARCA1213

Join Date 01/2014

+106

^Honestly, your funny and stupid.

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DARCA1213

Join Date 01/2014

+106

Really, start naming facts and stop using your opinion as proof. Sell your case. $

Hexagons are not the bane of gaming and this is not a conspiracy, your opinion is just out numbered. IMHO.

DARCA.

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I wont comment on the Insults , but on the last I will answer that there is nothing to prove .The reality its visible to anyone the game looks old of 20 years with a hex map . I coul dplay Civilization or any other game with a background of stars and would look the same .

This is not the way to go for a 2014 4x game . I expect much better .

sure there are some hardcore fans that like it old style and hex games with crap graphics , wich means no other players . If the game has to be sold out to other than hardcore fanbase it shoudl look definetly better and a 3d map is the way to go .

No need to post excuses to justify the hex look its just ugly . Its not an insult its a fact , I registered on the forum just couse I saw the game demo and I couln't stop thinking how ugly it was with a hex and flat map with hex movements and big things to collect on the flat map like if it was a scroller game from the 90's .

Seriously this is not going to work well . A more advanced system is required and much hoped for .

Insulting and trolling won't help your cause to me and all rest of people that think the same , and trust me there are dozens out there that just after seeing that map just dismissed the game .

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Here's the thing

Even with game that have 3d strategic maps, you are still fundamentally limited to 'lanes'

Ergo the question becomes: What do you GAIN from a 3D strategic map, vs what do you LOSE with it?

to me the issue is that adding the 3rd dimension doesn't really add that much to a game, given that you're always going to limit travel via arbitrary 'lanes'. I consider these to be more like 2.5D

Why do designers do this? Because as humans WE SUCK at looking at 3D. Oh we live in a 3D world but our vision really doesnt work that way. We dont' look at the world in a 3D plane. We look at maps, which are 2D. At stores , we only look at eye level, whcih is why terrible items are put ABOVE eye level, and good toys are put at eye level for kids. We scan horizontally because that's the world we live in, not vertically. Verticallity is something we aren't actually exposed to so we have no concept of looking up or down normally.

Thus a 3D strategic map introduces massive complexity for a typical person who doesn't normally think like a 3D map would need them. if ti was full 3D free roaming, ti would be worse because you'd have no concept of where choke points are or how to manage things.

The 3D map adds little, but adds a huge amount of complicated management messes.

We are Khan and we think only in 2D.

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Quoting PROMETHEUS_ts,

reply 6

Its just ugly the hex based , I have tried many 4x games so far and all the ones that had 2d maps honestly felt flat and not immersive .

But this is reaching even worst .

With the hex grid and hex angled movements , with the big box to catch like a pacman entity ...

I remember instead other games with 3d maps that were much more immersive . I do not see any problem with 3d and honestly its the direction developers should go for as most other 4x developers are also taking .

The problems rised about 3d beeing confuzional for some member is just poor programming and organization . Do it good and it will be better.

3d is the way those games shoudl go and I am not talking of realtime that's another thing .

Hex game is a huge step back . I remember even Masters of Orion II was not having hexes despite flat map at least looked more immersive ... but hexes ??? Cmon ...

Seriously hex flat map ? Its just so downgrading and ugly make it feel like a game for phones or from 20 years ago .

Its time that 4c games get done on 3 dimensions and it can be done very well . Just with some smartness in the design .

Samples of 3d maps .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7T9DUob1W0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cLeXj4p03k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbDQ-tYjpLg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QCmvsKSXic

The best 3d map so far I have tested tried and is perfectly intuitive and navigable is the one from Universe Sandbox .

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6shurn2W0w[/quote]

No.

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Quoting PROMETHEUS_ts,

reply 6

Samples of 3d maps .

[/quote]

There's a difference between

A ) creating a 3D map and

B ) creating a 3D map that is actually usable and conveys actual relevant information to you in game.

The former is easy

The latter is the hard part

All your examples have a single thing in common

They convey almost NO INFORMATION other than what the potential endpoints are.

At least if you're going to give an 'example' you should show the one game taht actually has a strategic 3d overlay map like Sword of the Stars 2.

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Wing Commander and Homeworld come to mind right off.

I do like the examples you made.

That being said, I love the structure of this game as is.

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Quoting lowell4,

reply 13

Wing Commander and Homeworld come to mind right off.

I do like the examples you made.

That being said, I love the structure of this game as is.

Homeworld never had a 3D startegic map view

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I'll repeat my preference for GC3 being developed as a 3-dimensional universe, but would admit it stretches current multi-threaded multi-processor technology capacity of even i7-grade processors to solve adjacency issues with six-faced cubes;it is a considerable programming challenge but that shouldn't be any excuse to avoid tackling the issue.

The Hex-based community trolls really seem to come out in force when anyone dare question their preferences. Well just because someone obviously doesn't have American english as their first language, that shouldn't be an excuse for flame-throwing insults. it just diminishes the credibility of the insulters point of view, in my not-so-humble opinion, to a "Because I say so" degenerative arguement.

Anyway I'll say it again, just to annoy the hex-based community trolls, I like and want 3-dimensional universes for GC3. Just because you may be the most vocal section of the Galactic Civilizations Series community, this does not make you automatically "right" and beyond reproach.

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And by-the-way, when I see an attractive female, unless she is lying on a bed or reclining on a couch, I have to look her up and down to appreciate her attractiveness; however unpolitically correct this may be, it's the way the world functions, and how we view it is entirely circumstantial and not dogmatically a 'horizontal' attitude. Someone's never used his printer and had to choose between "portrait" and "landscape" orientations.

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DARCA1213

Join Date 01/2014

+106

I believe some people here are a bit over eager to throw stones at our 3D loving friend, and that is disappointing.

Overall I do not know of many games in the TBS-ish genre that are 3D. In fact it might be easier to find a game that still uses squares. Its is inevitable that things will change eventually, as for right now hexs are the main way to make a game. But like all prophets, you are before your time Prometheus.

DARCA.

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The kind of people that always repeat to the younger ones " It was better at old times ".

The 3d is extremely versatile and most of all its the way to go because its also implementing new vision and possibilities .

There is no need for star lanes , despite I liked them .

Its a matter of how to organize the 3d and a Vision .

There are many ways in wich it could be implemented it just needs to be tought and the problems get solved .

Hex and flat maps aree not just ugly are an excuse to not change what is "easy" and just because there is not much competition out there the devs perhaps prefer to stick to with the feet on the same ground rather than actually focus and develope the new system .

ME alone can think of many solutions for a 3d .

You want to be serious about the discussion ?

List all the Problems that you think 3d woudl rise :

....

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OsirisDawn

Join Date 09/2004

+30

Quoting Schaefespeare,

reply 16

Looking someone up and down has nothing to do with 3D perception ...

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OsirisDawn

Join Date 09/2004

+30

Quoting PROMETHEUS_ts,

reply 18

I do not fear trolls, they exhist n all forums , but those are not trolls are people scared to change their little garden . They are so much used to make the steps on the same stones that have little sight for what woudl be a better evolution.

The kind of people that always repeat to the younger ones " It was better at old times ".

The 3d is extremely versatile and most of all its the way to go because its also implementing new vision and possibilities .

There is no need for star lanes , despite I liked them .

Its a matter of how to organize the 3d and a Vision .

There are many ways in wich it could be implemented it just needs to be tought and the problems get solved .

Hex and flat maps aree not just ugly are an excuse to not change what is "easy" and just because there is not much competition out there the devs perhaps prefer to stick to with the feet on the same ground rather than actually focus and develope the new system .

ME alone can think of many solutions for a 3d .

You want to be serious about the discussion ?

List all the Problems that you think 3d woudl rise :

....

You have not given one point, why 3D is objectivly better then hex, but 'it's ugly'.

And that is a matter of preference.

And just making an account to complain about a feature of a game, that isn't at that point in development even debateable smells like trolling.

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OsirisDawn

Join Date 09/2004

+30

Quoting Schaefespeare,

reply 15

I just doubt that the shift to 3D would bring enough additional customers to offset the cost that comes with that challenge.

If Stardock follows that line of thinking they have every 'excuse' they need. I would use the word 'reason', but that's just me.

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kryo

Join Date 05/2003

+458

We have no plans to implement a 3D map in GalCiv, sorry. If that is a critical feature for you, you may want to try other games instead.

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While the idea of a 3D map sounds neat at first, the reality of playing a turn based strategy game in 3D would be unnecessarily complex, and would add nothing positive to the gameplay. There's a reason chess is still played on a board, and not with pieces hanging in the air.

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erischild

Join Date 01/2012

+136

"List all the Problems that you think 3d woudl rise :"

I find your posting style aggressive and dismissive of other people's stance starting with the OP. You declare yourself as knowing more about gaming than I ever will. That may be true, but it is only a rude boast, not a reason to be listened to. I have no problem with the level of aggressive response you have elicited. Calm down your original input so it isn't a declaration of a war of concepts and you will receive less aggressive responses. Maybe not less passionate on this subject, but less personally agressive. You reap what you sow and you come across as a troll whether you realize that or not. I am not surprised you perceive the responses as troll-like. Anyone who starts with the emotional trigger words "boring", "ugly". and "cartoonish" is either very very clumsy with language, or just itching for a fight. Which is it in your case? To many, it seemed you were just itching for a fight. It was a challenge to respond to you reasonably. I am now thinking it may have been a waste of time.

We'll try. I would find such a 3D game completely unplayable because I would get lost in the 3 dimensions. I don't play paintball for that reason. I get lost playing Assassin's Creed. (especially when running for my life!) I don't think I am alone in that issue. If that is not enough objective reason for us to non-insultingly discuss the subject, then we have nothing to talk about, do we?

I think GalCiv3 will not be the game you are looking for. When you find the one you do like, please invest in its future like we did for this one.

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Quoting kryo,

reply 22

We have no plans to implement a 3D map in GalCiv, sorry. If that is a critical feature for you, you may want to try other games instead.

So that's official Answer? If so then thanks , I guess I will look elsewhere for 4x of next gen .

Too bad to listen only to niche users too much restrained to think in old ways to see the 3d potential and too much tied to an old vision .

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