Theeannon Theeannon

Extremely dumb AI-trading behaviour spoils whole game

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Extremely dumb AI-trading behaviour spoils whole game

from GalCiv3 Forums

The AI trades so badly that one can easily outperform it and win all too easily. Examples that should be fixed:

1) You can trade in a substantial part of an AI-opponent fleet against some techs (and maybe some minor ressources or quite remote and userul starbases). Thereby the AI looses all its defense and the players fleet is greatly and quickly strengthened so much that the AI can be crushed within a few turns.

2) One can easily get the alone tech leader by simply trading techs round the different AI in the following sense: trade tech a, b ,c against d, e with AI no 1. Trade some of your a-e techs with AI no 2 to get also tech f, g and so on and so on. Although usually you have to give each single AI opponent a little more than you get, but in the end you have gathered (almost) all currently researched techs and each single AI has only received a few techs.

Proposed solution:

It has to be ensured that the AI behaves more like a good human player, i.e. it mustnt trade with the player if the player has a greater advantage than the AI player itself. An algorithm that only compares e.g. manufacturing costs or research points from the two trade parties and then says 'yes, lets trade' if the AI get eg 10% more in a certain trade is not suitable. Additional factors/penalties have to be introduced within the trade algorithm if the player gets e.g. very good ships which can be used to invade planet and thus are much, much more valuable than just the manufacturing points of the ships. Or the AI demands kind of a non-invasion agreement for the next 50-100 turns (after which the traded ships are outdated and thus not dangerous for him anymore) if he trades ships against somerhing.

In case 2) above, the AI has to act smarter, too. Either the AI also plays the same trading game with the other AI-opponents and thus soon everybody has (almost) each researched tech or it has to have a substantial advantage from the traded-in techs. Military techs seem to be 'valued' a little more by the AI, which also doesnt really make sense because there are a lot of non-military techs that give much bigger advantages than e.g. the next best laser tech.

Actually, I am not quite sure if the AI being used is really able to 'plan and play meaningfully and really in an intelligent way'. If the algorithms are not able to 'judge well' about the benefits of a certain tech trade, this trade option should better be eliminated because the AI is playing 'suicidely' currently.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

19,205 views 37 replies
Reply #26 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Just to be sure:

In the new Beta the "AI should have been boosted". Does that also apply for the trading issued discussed in that posting?

The AI is still making the same stupid things...

Yesterday, I received 25 (or so) CREDITS PER TURN (!!!) for some very "useless" tech from different AIs (majors and minors). That's much to much and makes "earning money" all to simple.

Reply #27 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I have been playing on Excessive and they did lock out all trades with anyone at war with. Now the only option is to ask for peace. 

 

I think they doing a great job so far. 

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Reply #28 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Yeah, but if you at peace, then the AI trades bad. The game simply becomes extremely easy if you can easily trade in all techs...I am playing now without trading, but that's not a sound solution. You have to optimize the AI so that it calculates better what to trade and what not.

 

AND:

I'm on suicidal and 3 AIs on godlike and the game is still much too easy. I conquered 7-8 planets until now and it's really a catastrophe what the AI is building there. It doesn't group the research facilities around the research coordination center, the same isn't done with factories. The approval is bad and it doesn't build entertainment etc...

Really, I ask you to GREATLY IMPROVE THE AI. The game is well made, but it's going to be no fun if the AI is so dumb.

Reply #29 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Theeannon, reply 28


Really, I ask you to GREATLY IMPROVE THE AI. The game is well made, but it's going to be no fun if the AI is so dumb.
End of Theeannon's quote

 

No doubt they are working on the AI as we speak

Reply #30 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

It has been 3 weeks since I last read this thread, and now release is 3 weeks away, and we still have major issues with the AI not to mention polish, bugs, crashes, and it just not being done.  How is this all going to get completed in 3 weeks?!?!?

Reply #31 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

How is this all going to get completed in 3 weeks?!?!?

Well, this probably will not. It was never fixed in Galciv 2 after all.

Reply #32 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Seilore, reply 4

AI is a basic AI right now as the game is still in Beta (Expected release is May 2015 or next month) by then expect the AI to be very similar or better than it was in Galactic Civilizations II.  Thus why when you launch the game it states "this is a Beta game not for fun".  Please expect it to be fun with-in the next couple months.
End of Seilore's quote

 

This just doesn't seem realistic. it takes a LONG time to build and test AI. if there was a better AI in existence it really needs to be in the BETA for testing.

Reply #33 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting glenbruton, reply 32

This just doesn't seem realistic. it takes a LONG time to build and test AI. if there was a better AI in existence it really needs to be in the BETA for testing.
End of glenbruton's quote

Most of the building of the AI has been occurring and tested. Beta 6 to release will be the main tweaking stage. Plus, after the game is released, tweaking will continue to occur with an added tool involved. You can allow the game at your discretion to upload your gameplay and AI play for further tweaking and improving.

Reply #34 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Pre-Beta 6 there wasn't really any AI in the trading screen (good or bad).  Beta 6 is the first beta I've even looked at it.

It should be pretty much a day and night difference.  That said, I am sure someone will find some exploit to it. They always do.  Hopefully they'll report it as they're easy to address.  But we want to keep our trading system very sophisticated (i.e trade X for Y where X and Y are unrelated).

Reply #35 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Rhaegor, reply 30

It has been 3 weeks since I last read this thread, and now release is 3 weeks away, and we still have major issues with the AI not to mention polish, bugs, crashes, and it just not being done.  How is this all going to get completed in 3 weeks?!?!?
End of Rhaegor's quote

 

Generally speaking, you should probably assume the game will give you cancer.  Then, assuming it doesn't actually give you cancer, it'll be a big boost.

But seriously, taking part of a beta program means you get to see the sausage being made.  Relative to GalCiv II, Sins of a Solar Empire and Fallen Enchantress, GalCiv III is, even in the build we have right now, in better release shape than they were. 

In Sins of a Solar Empire, we didn't decide until 2 weeks before the game shipped whether resources would run out (from mining) or be infinite.  During the entire beta, they would run out and we decided to make them infinite.

Beta testing isn't for the faint of heart.

Reply #36 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 35

In Sins of a Solar Empire, we didn't decide until 2 weeks before the game shipped whether resources would run out (from mining) or be infinite. During the entire beta, they would run out and we decided to make them infinite.
End of Frogboy's quote

And the whining from the decision still goes on. I think several have tried to make mods that made mining finite. Of course if you had stayed with finite there would be whining and mods that as well.

 

Reply #37 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Ryat, reply 36


Quoting Frogboy,
reply 35

In Sins of a Solar Empire, we didn't decide until 2 weeks before the game shipped whether resources would run out (from mining) or be infinite. During the entire beta, they would run out and we decided to make them infinite.



And the whining from the decision still goes on. I think several have tried to make mods that made mining finite. Of course if you had stayed with finite there would be whining and mods that as well.

 

End of Ryat's quote

Absolutely.   

When working on the AI, a big part of the challenge and underlying fact is that there are people out there who are simply better at the game than I am.  So I have to learn from their strategies. 

This weekend I mainly worked on the trade screen and I think people will notice pretty massive differences.  But it will still need to be improved on over the coming year or two.