SpartanHoplite

Join Date 07/2014

Little difference in races

When I first got GalCiv3 only 3 weeks ago I was only playing as the Humans so I could get a feel of the game. Now I have started to experiment with different races and they are almost identical. Yes the starting stats might be different and possibly a few buildings but the tech tree is the same and also the Ideological Traits are the same. This basically means that no single race has true weaknesses and advantages. I also noticed that weapons are nearly the exact same as other races and have the same stats. The game would be more diverse and fun if each race had it's own set of weapons that are weaker or stronger than other races weapons. Also the tech tree, mix it up. Say the Humans can quickly research interstellar travel faster than the Drengin but the Drengin can research weapons tech faster. All this goes for each race, even the minor races. This can lead to multiplayer games becoming more interesting with players choice of race and how it would fend against other races. This could also create gamer communities of players who support different races because of these traits. (The minor races can have a back history of getting tech and weapons from other races and the weapons can resemble those of the larger races.)

I hope this kinda makes sense, the ending is a bit dodgy but I think it is something that needs to be looked at.

Cheers

SpartanHoplite

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This basically means that no single race has true weaknesses and advantages.

This is exactly how it should be. No one race should be better than the others.

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Franco fx

Join Date 04/2003

+59

There will be some racial traits (fixed and optional) added that will do some of what you are asking for. For instance, in the dev stream, Paul said that in B5 the Terrans will get the first improvement on every planet for free, and they will be able to build shipyard anywhere on the map with no production degradation. This appears to mean you can build a shipyard in the center of the enemies ZOC and as long as you can protect the shipyard, you can pump out military ships as fast as you can next to your home planet.

I know that we can conceive of alien weapons unlike anything in the game but that will have to be left to the modders as will any dramatic difference in the tech tree. Other than the race specific buildings that are essentially just different names for the same improvements, diversity will be determined by fixed and elective traits. Terran ships are faster, Drengins get military bonuses, are a couple of the traits that are already in the game.

On single player each AI is programmed to play in a specific way. In multiplayer, that is obviously left to the individual, but the full range of traits that wiull be in future releases will provide a lot of diversity

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ForesterSOF

Join Date 10/2013

+32

With the faction editor and XML editing and Modding you could make your own races so the game is unbalanced tremendously.

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Franco fx

Join Date 04/2003

+59

Quoting ForesterSOF,

reply 3

With the faction editor and XML editing and Modding you could make your own races so the game is unbalanced tremendously.

LOL, I made a faction like that way back when I played SMAC. I only play single player and when I didn't want to play a serious game and just wanted to shoot things up, I would use that faction just for S&G.

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From the stream it seems like this is coming in gradually, like how the terrans get certain key advantages in shipyards/colonization.

The Modding available to us will hopefully see websites and databases, like race shipyards as Space Empires IV did, where players upload their races, complete with shipdesigns and custom personalities. With the tech tree modding potential, we should see a good diverse group of opponents to pick from, and from the stream modders should be able to mod in their own dialogue also.

I do hope as they add more core races, they have different playstyles too. Cloakers come to mind, the asteroid race already mentioned, raiders, long range races that try to maintain distance. Races that use an alternate weapon type, like energy draining (low damage but no counter), parasite or virus races that actually damage planets they exist on, things like that.

Quoting charon2112,

reply 1

This basically means that no single race has true weaknesses and advantages.

This is exactly how it should be. No one race should be better than the others.

Weaknesses and Advantages doesn't usually mean better, it means different.

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Quoting charon2112,

reply 1

This is exactly how it should be. No one race should be better than the others.

I understand what you mean, but that is not what I meant. Races would be better at certain things in-game. So for every advantage against one race there will also be a disadvantage. Therefore the races will not be better than one another they will just be different.

Quoting Franco fx,

reply 2

There will be some racial traits (fixed and optional) added that will do some of what you are asking for.

Yes but even with different racial traits the game, which may change it slightly, the attack of a Cutter from the Terran's and a Cutter from the Drengin will still have the same weapon damage and the weapons look the same. I not only mean that the races should have different stats but also designs should be different. It's not like all races had the same idea for Stingers at the same time. Weapons should reflect the race, such as the Drengins crude sharp-pointed ships should have crude sharp-pointed weapons, and so on for the other races.

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BuckGodot

Join Date 11/2009

+73

A lot of the differences are also in faction specific techs, which are still coming in/being worked on. The faction specific techs lead to faction bonuses, planetary improvements and other things. From a glance, Beta 5 is going to be something of a quantum leap for the game.

Not only that, but when you get 'standard' techs can have a subtle, but important, difference when playing.

But if you want a radically playing difference even before Beta 5, play as the Yor. Just by being synthetic, they are quite a different play experience.

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I am all for differences between races --- after all, unlike earth based 4x games like civ, we are dealing with all aliens here.

Still, as far as weapons go, it seems to me that the physics is going to be the same for all the races. Like back in the late 60s (you all remember, right?) the Klingons, Romulans, and the Federation all used similar weapons. Some races might prefer certain techs or discover them a little more quickly. Like the Romulan cloaking device but even then the theme of that show was that military secrets are the most fleeting of all. The point was that even if Spock hadn't betrayed the Romulan commander, the Federation would have figured out the device eventually anyway.

As far as ship design, well, there is appearance and there is contents. Everything I see show drastic and interesting differences in the latest build. (FYI I don't much care for the Altarian ships, lol). I don't see what could be done with the contents; after all one wants the maximum flexibility for designs. Perhaps some races could build smaller versions of some things, for instance, but I don't think it is worth the effort.

The racial differences should be in temperament, in preferred policies, trustworthiness, etc. I fully expect those to be much improved by launch. The list of abilities in the changelog for b5 looks like a good start to me.

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Skukkuk

Join Date 03/2003

+10

Quoting charon2112,

reply 1

This basically means that no single race has true weaknesses and advantages.

This is exactly how it should be. No one race should be better than the others.

I do accept this term to get equality for multiplayer. On the other side...why do all races have to be like one another? Plus, racial diversity doesn't need to hurt equality.

Do you really agree that in whole universe all races grow on planets with identical enviroment? (Even those extreme planets do not offer some diversion.)

All use the same tech? (Yeah, I've read a posting about getting some parts of techtree different...).

All have the same goal? All are only there to eXtinct each other?

Come one...I can't believe it!

At current state, it just shows like company branches fighting each other over resources. There is no real root competition in it because all do the same. I would not be disappointed if they started the story with one company exploring the universe and started fighting each other. But GC3 states to have different races all over the universe. I can't see them.

No idea about winning by having better life strategies then the other. No idea about winning by managing to grow your whole race into transcendent beeings and leave others behind. No idea about winning by buying other empires acceptance with your wealth. It's just simplistic kill-each-other.

I thought GC3 is ment to be a 4X - game, but currently it seems they lowered eXplore as this part is over too fast, eXpand is direct limited by AI numbers or code-weakness and eXploit is currently only building masses of starbase-builder ships. Leftover is eXterminate as only reason for long-term motivation.

...before someone starts a new crusade over my post...

I try to support by posting my thoughts about current GC3 version. Probably devs haven't heart about yet. ^^

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Mohobie

Join Date 12/2007

+11

Quoting SpartanHoplite,

reply 6

The bonuses already in place... somewhat... make that untrue. They are going to become more unique as the AI progression is developed. I admit I would like to hear more on their current progress in relation to that, but anyone who has played a prior gal civ can tell you they will be deeply different to face off against. I have not played the Dregin yet but if I recall correctly they have a bonus to ship weapons already? Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but racial traits already offer bonuses and disadvantages to various stats. A bonus to attack (which I think the Dregin already have) would mean that two otherwise equal tech ships would give them an advantage over the opposition.

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