Tetrasodium

Join Date 03/2006

+17

B4 0.7(? )Ship Hull/carrier spawn balabce mod v2.5 UPDATED late Feb/7/15

v2 & 2.5 notes a few posts down, but here, v1 notes immediaately below the quote here

V2.5 here

All of the above changes, plus the carrier spawned ships are now equipped with a DroneAI module that reduces weapon range by a -.75multiplier, damage by -.5 multiplier in addition to the stuff above. detailed changlog notes in the zip file itself

Install directions.. assuming I got all of the proper files (I believe I did!), extract them all to their respective folders (galcivIII\data\schema\enums, galcivIII\data\english\text GalvivIII\data\game\ in the same arrangement they are in the zip file)

Nutshell version:

A drone AI module has been added, it grants +30 ShipRange (i.e. the see thing life support gives but more) aat the expense of -75% hp, -75% weapons range, & -50% weapon damage. (all types), this module is (hopefully) included on carrier module spawned ships. combined with the hull changes, this might hit too hard, but feedback will tell since I'm heavily affected by the b4 patch 1 ctd bugs! the 1 weight seemed reasonable given the penalties & lack of a need to keep the crew out of stasis

The modded cargo hull on an immense map with a DroneAI module can cover roughly a quarter/maybe third or so of the map making meeting neighbors before well into the age of war less of a stroke of luck after significant work to do so.
DroneAImodules are a new ComponentType (DroneAI ones to be specific) so they could be nailed to the things spawned by carrier modules

Ship hulls have more base HP that scales as the hull sizes increase. TacticalSpeed , akaShip maneuvering(I believe), is better for ships below medium & about the same/slightly better for those above weapons ranges for hulls >medium are longer, shorter below medium
cargo hulls have a multiplier for sensor & life support range that works out to being roughly == to stock without either being added but +50% when they are

In another thread, there was a sggestion/discussion about making some changes to ship hp values & weapon ranges based on hull types & it seemed like a good idea to give it a whirl... as a benchmark data point for discussion if nothing else.The numbers are probably off from where the sweet spot will be, but it's more intended as a proof of concept for testing a hypothesis someone put out. The goal of this was to makesomething quick for people to test with for the purpose of seeing where things should be, or if it's even a good/bad idea Feedback is strongly encouraged/desired

Ship HP has been raised to varying degrees, weapon ranges & maneuverability modified as follows:

TacticalSpeed base is a flat 50 for all ships in Galciv3GlobalDefs.xml this file is unchanged
Accelerationbase is a flat 5 for all ships in Galciv3GlobalDefs.xml this file is unchanged
Acceleration UNCHANGED on all ships. Truth be told, I'm not really sure how this affects things. - Tetra

Cargo Hull
- HitPointsCap 5->15
- ShipRange 12> 8+50% (i.e. unchanged until life support modules are added, or slightly less depending on how the two interact together when both on the ship hull itself)
-SensorRange 2 ->1.25 +50% = just very slightly higher until sensor modules are added with 50% greater power
- No Other Changes

*Tiny Hull
- 25 HP
¼ weapon range
Small
50 hp
+ 1.5x Maneuver
+ ½ weapons range
*Medium = 100 hp
+ 1x Maneuver 1x weapons range (baseline)
*Large 250 hp
+ .75 Maneuver 1.25 weapons range
base TactcalSpeed =(-.25) Since it was already there, changimng it seemed inadvisable at this point of testing this
*Huge
-500 hp
- + .5 Maneuver , it was already -.5 so see above why unchanged
- +1.5 weapons range

Cargo Hull
- HitPointsCap 5->15
- ShipRange 12> 8+50% (i.e. unchanged until life support modules are added, or slightly less depending on how the two interact together when both on the ship hull itself)
-SensorRange 2 ->1.25 +50% = just very slightly higheruntil sensor modules are added with 50% greater power

the xml can be found above, just extract it & put the bits where they go using the included folder structure or read the included changenotes.txt for more detail on the hacktastic mod or installing it

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Tetrasodium

Join Date 03/2006

+17

On a side note... a while back, one of the devstream things mentioned a way to make the ai play all factions as fast as the box would run them, I thought it was just float from the game's console... but seem to be mistaken given the error it returns, does anybody remember the command?

Edit:

I went back to look, the command is soak not float

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Larsenex

Join Date 04/2009

+212

This would make fighters nigh invincible. I like the changes but it seems that 'fighters' not necessarily tiny hulls should have slight special rules to them. They need to be powerful but brittle, I think a single hit by any weapon mounted on a capital ship should destroy it. I dont know how you would 'mod' that.

I do like these changes though.

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Tetrasodium

Join Date 03/2006

+17

Quoting Larsenex,

reply 2

I tend to play in ways that don't involve much combat, so haven't seen a lot of the complaints with combat first hand (part of why I made more than usual effort to avoid it). By "fighters" I'm assuming you mean the things spawned by carrier modules?

Making a new ship hull type is a little more involved, but I'm pretty sure I know how based on some stuff I tried in .061, the problem there lies in that I have no idea what the cvarrier module spawns (names might be helpful), if I had the names, I might be able to hack something into place to accomplish that sort of thing you suggest.

edit: since the word on carrier modules was basically "i win buttons", I never even bothered giving them a consideraional whirl

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Larsenex

Join Date 04/2009

+212

I honestly feel they should have no defensive value and either nerf their damage or double the value of defensive stats and/or make the strategic resources do this but better. For Since the fighters all focus on one ship at a time t hey quickly 'burn the target and move on to the next, with beams being the longest weapon they really clear the field quickly and even battleships cant get in return shots.

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Tetrasodium

Join Date 03/2006

+17

Quoting Larsenex,

reply 4

At this point in Beta, Carriers are indeed 'I Win' buttons. I suspect this will carry into Gold but we can suggest and try improvements along the way. Currently Carriers spawn 3 'tiny' hulled ships (per carrier module equipped) with the latest in beam weaponry that you currently know. They auto upgrade as you reach that tech at no cost.

I honestly feel they should have no defensive value and either nerf their damage or double the value of defensive stats and/or make the strategic resources do this but better. For Since the fighters all focus on one ship at a time t hey quickly 'burn the target and move on to the next, with beams being the longest weapon they really clear the field quickly and even battleships cant get in return shots.

I could fix this by adding a -hp/-whatever module to the template for the spawned ships if I knew what template it was using easier than making a new hull, what is their "name" in the combat log?

I tried adding a new hull & setting a bunch of things with tiny hulls to use it, which "worked", but the ai is remarkably bad at advancing through the tech tree on soak. 223 turns in, drengin researched a crapton of weapon/defenses, and almost nothing else.. had a bunch of planets with birthing subsidiesl, no hospitals/farms, and rarely even a factory/labor camp resulting in something basically unplayable

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I will give this a shot tomorrow and see what happens in combat. It would not surprise me if the .exe will make this difficult. is there a way to test and make sure your values are being used in the game?

Would it be possible change the combat system, to use shields first, armor second, and then hull. Of course chaff to affect missiles only?

No matter how the games final version turns out, if we keep on SD to keep all the files open to the public, then the sky is the limit for modding. That will really be where the game shines.

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Tetrasodium

Join Date 03/2006

+17

Quoting xeryx,

reply 6

It is good to see that some of those values were already in there, that means I was not too far off base with the developers ideas. As a fellow modder, I am afraid to look at the XML files, especially at this point. I know how I am and I would go completely into Modding mode. I will give this a shot tomorrow and see what happens in combat. It would not surprise me if the .exe will make this difficult. is there a way to test and make sure your values are being used in the game?

The xml files are extremely flexible, most values can be changed from a Flat bonus to a Multiplier ,or vice versa. Many values can be taken from cml file A & imported into xml file B & worst case the game gives an error on launch with an option to quit/continue. People say that they are afraid of the xml files rehularly, but they are very well ordered & easy to muck with. I wouldn't do any heavy duty modding right now, but quick & dirty hacktastic changes like these ones are easy Regarding crippling drones & addressing a problem in larger mapswhere just meeting someone takes a lucky wormhole or hundred+ turns at the same time...

add this to ShipComponentDefs.xml in galcivIII\data\Game\
<ShipComponent>
<InternalName>DroneAI</InternalName>
<DisplayName>DroneAI_Name</DisplayName>
<Description>DroneAI_Dec</Description>
<ArtDefine>Hyperdrive_01</ArtDefine>
<Category>Engines</Category>
<Type>Targeting</Type>
<PlacementType>Targeting</PlacementType>
<Stats>
<EffectType>ManufacturingCost</EffectType>
<Scope>Queue</Scope>
<Target>
<TargetType>Ship</TargetType>
</Target>
<BonusType>Flat</BonusType>
<Value>5</Value>
</Stats>
<Stats>
<EffectType>ShipRange</EffectType>
<Target>
<TargetType>Ship</TargetType>
</Target>
<BonusType>Flat</BonusType>
<Value>30</Value>
</Stats>
<Stats>
<EffectType>Mass</EffectType>
<Target>
<TargetType>Ship</TargetType>
</Target>
<BonusType>Flat</BonusType>
<Value>1</Value>
</Stats>
<Stats>
<EffectType>HitPointsCap</EffectType>
<Target>
<TargetType>Ship</TargetType>
</Target>
<BonusType>Multiplier</BonusType>
<Value>-.75</Value>
</Stats>
<Prerequ>
<Techs>
<Option>TechTree</Option>
</Techs>
</Prerequ>
</ShipComponent>

add this to ShipComponentText.xml in \Galactic Civilizations III\data\English\Text\

<StringTable>
<Label>DroneAI_Name</Label>
<String>Drone AI Module</String>
</StringTable>

<StringTable>
<Label>DroneAI_Dec</Label>
<String>decreases Ship HitPointsCap by 75 percent while massively raising ShipRangeCap with AI drone control module rather than a pilot or crew.</String>
</StringTable>

Since I don't know what it needs adding to, in order to plaxce it on a drone, I just made it outright as a component you can place on things one turn1, when coupled with the modded cargo hull above you get like 3 hp & what looked like maybe a quarter/third of the map's range. I tried it at 0 mass for to start because I don't know what the carrier modules spawn to add it to. If the carrier modules spawn ships with the same checks that the starting ships have (ignores the mass cap), it could theoretically be a ridiculous mass and I think still work. I don't know what caused a CTD somewhere in the turn 50-80ish range with it at 0 mass on my very first patch1 game, but figure changing it to 5 mass couldm't hurt in case it was an ai putting a zillion on a ship (which I doubt)

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Tetrasodium

Join Date 03/2006

+17

updated v2 of it here (updated to remove errors a few minues after original post), v2 is based on another thread

This hacktastic mod was made for beta4 patch 1 based on a couple forum threads, unfortunately, I have no idea how well various bits of v1 work because the only feedback received is "I like the changes but carriers..."

I'm fairly certain I could fix carreier fighters -if- I knew the names of the shios they spawn (tiuny with a beam weapons narrows it down to a ton of possible templates!!! I ---NEED--- the name to know where to mod)

Changelog v1:

Tiny = 25 hp + 2x Maneuver + ¼ weapon range
Small = 50 hp + 1.5x Maneuver + ½ weapons range
Medium = 100 hp + 1x Maneuver 1x weapons range (baseline)
Large = 250 hp + .75 Maneuver 1.25 weapons range
Huge = 500 hp + .5 Maneuver +1.5 weapons range
Civilian Star base = 1000 HP + 1.75 weapons range
Military Star base = 1500 HP + 2.0 weapons range

TacticalSpeed base is a flat 50 for all ships in Galciv3GlobalDefs.xml
Accelerationbase is a flat 5 for all ships in Galciv3GlobalDefs.xml
Acceleration UNCHANGED on all ships. Truth be told, I'm not really sure how
this affects things. - Tetra

Cargo Hull
- HitPointsCap 5->15
- ShipRange 12> 8+50% (i.e. unchanged until life support modules are added, or
slightly less depending on how the two interact together when both on the ship
hull itself)
-SensorRange 2 ->1.25 +50% = just very slightly higher until sensor modules are
added with 50% greater power
- No Other Changes

*Tiny Hull
- 25 HP
¼ weapon range
Small
50 hp
+ 1.5x Maneuver
+ ½ weapons range
*Medium = 100 hp
+ 1x Maneuver 1x weapons range (baseline)
*Large 250 hp
+ .75 Maneuver 1.25 weapons range
base TactcalSpeed =(-.25) Since it was already there, changimng it seemed
inadvisable at this point of testing this
*Huge
-500 hp
- + .5 Maneuver , it was already .5 so see above why unchanged
- +1.5 weapons range

V2 changes
Drone AI module has been added, it's low mass, but has a maintenance cost of 1
credit, the thing gives -75% hp but a huge +20. a modded cargo hull above can traverse roughly a quarter-third of an immense map with one of these making meeting your neighbors less of a massive undertaking & huge bit of luck. before late mid/late game on certain galaxy configs (i.e. abundant stars/planets occasional habitable common/abundantextreme)

The base for TacticalSpeed on all ships is set in galciv3globaldefs.xm flat 50
by default, but above medium hulls+cargo, hulls have a penalty to this value,
below medium there is a bonus while shipcomponentdefs.xml are giving a
marginal +3 to +15, tiny hulls by default got a sixable bonus while the large
& larger got a penalty of up to 50% (medium was 0)
- as a result of the last couplefactoid, I considered a second lineof
thrusters that woerked closer to the originals, but didn't want to confuse the
ai so just changed the originals
- Base thrusters were a flat +3, this has been changed to flat +2 and
multiplier .25 (2.25+[base*1.25]=+27.25 on huge hulls, but a crapton on tiny &
somewhere inetween for everything else)
-Ion thrusters were flat 5, now flat 4 + multiplier .35
-Field thrusters flat9>flat 6+multiplier.4
-inertial acceleration flat 12> flat12 +multiplier .5
- Gravity manipulationfield flat 15> flat 15 + multiplier .75
Many of those might be too high (or just right) but who knows

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last I checked the fighters for the Terran's was "Snipers" which is weird because, snipers are a small hull ship.

I am getting around and drinking my coffee, I will get these changes in and test them of the next game I play. Can you make a summary list of the feature changes so other people will easily see what you have done, and maybe they will help.

Let's keep away from the thrusters for now, I have some other ideas working but we need to keep things as simple as possible to keep the results from getting skewed. Only base maneuverability penalties.

The main goal, is to make small ships close in range and engage, they are fodder if needed for the big ships.

In order to make more epic battles, hull sizes may need to be reworked to have larger hit points. I do think they need some more space, overall but I have not played enough to get a good feel on how much. remember the numbers I provided are just a guess for balance. There maybe other hidden factors, like race traits, that we have to account for. At this point we are just going slow, because they will release another version and change a bunch of stuff.

I love the "hacktastic" saying.

I like the idea of the drone modules!! this would make a fantastic middle tech.

What I would love to see is a MIRV module, for a small ship with a one time use 3,5,10 warhead module. It would probably be over powered though, like fighters currently are. However it can wait awhile, since missiles are bugged, per the podcast.

I think I am going to go look at the podcast and see what is up for this week. Apparently weapons also play into the role of a ship, so we really need to find out more info on that as well.

BTW I am quite familiar with modding, and have made many mods. Most were XML, but what I specialize in is AI. Hence, my concerns for the lack of it.

What are you using to edit your XML files?

Xeryx

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Tetrasodium

Join Date 03/2006

+17

im on the couch warching tv right now, but there are a lot of sniper templates, probably some with tiny hulls, ill check it out later & probably mod them anyways. worst case, sniper templates are silly weak warships & nobody will care much when small hulls open up 10 turns later.

I think hacktastic is a spin on the modtastic(?) term Brad(?) used somewhere couple weeks back, modtastic sounded too polished since my testing was basically "It loads, the module & hulls function as far as I can tellbased on a little play and couple hours of soak time on a new game "

I'm just using notepad to edit the XML files & frequently doing it by pulling bits from various systems (which works more often than not. Nothing special there. If you screw up it will tell you onlaunch with file names, line#'s & char positions with a quit/Copy to clipboard/Ignore option

There is an XML file that defines what component types qualify a ship as what & a second that covers attack orders and thinks. I saw them both in0.61 & think they are noted in my modding guide1 post but the couch thing comes in again

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Quoting Tetrasodium,

reply 10

& nobody will care much when small hulls open up 10 turns later.

I think hacktastic is a spin on the modtastic(?) term Brad(?) used somewhere couple weeks back, modtastic sounded too polished since my testing was basically "It loads, the module & hulls function as far as I can tellbased on a little play and couple hours of soak time on a new game "

I'm just using notepad to edit the XML files & frequently doing it by pulling bits from various systems (which works more often than not. Nothing special there. If you screw up it will tell you onlaunch with file names, line#'s & char positions with a quit/Copy to clipboard/Ignore option

There is an XML file that defines what component types qualify a ship as what & a second that covers attack orders and thinks. I saw them both in0.61 & think they are noted in my modding guide1 post but the couch thing comes in again

For modding xml files try notepad ++, it is simple and works really well. It breaks down the sub-branches of the xml files and will eliminate erroneous errors from typos and formatting.

When I listened to the podcast, it sound like the weapons load out is what determines its role? I am sure support modules do as well, so if you run across that stuff we can break some things down and make a plan of attack for the beta 5, it sounded like B5 is going to be the last one before release.

Can you look at star base modules? maybe they can be greatly simplified, that way we don't have to build so many fracken constructors but increase construction cost. It would help simplify testing. We can do 2 attack and defense modules, a basic and advanced, remove all the other defense and attack modules. Leave the civilian and mining modules. I'm sure the tech tree will be affected by this as well.

As far as the snipers, they are not weak, because of the range they can fire. At 2x the tech of my enemies, I have seen them destroy and entire stack of 5 medium ships and a star base. with no help from other ships. That is crap, especially when they only have 5 HP which seems like a tiny hull.

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I actually have to write a review for Newegg this weekend, I am testing a new monitor out, and need to play some FPS stuff as well. Unfortunately my time will be more limited than I thought.

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Thecw

Join Date 08/2012

+84

Quoting Tetrasodium,

reply 8

Tetrasodium.

Take a look at the FactionDefs.xml and the Initial Fighter tags (they contain the ship class names):

<InitialAssaultFighter>TerranSniper</InitialAssaultFighter>
<InitialInterceptorFighter>TerranSniper</InitialInterceptorFighter>
<InitialEscortFighter>TerranGuardian</InitialEscortFighter>
<InitialGuardianFighter>TerranKnight</InitialGuardianFighter>

In the ShipComponentDefs.xml file both AssaultCarrierModule and AdvancedTransportModule use:

<EffectType>InterceptorFightersCap</EffectType>

Instead of modding the blueprints for these core ships, you could simply create a new ship class (ShipClassDefs.xml) with a new blueprint (ShipBlueprintDefs.xml) and still use the core ship design templates. Or you could go mad and also create entire new ship designs for them.

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Tetrasodium

Join Date 03/2006

+17

The targeting order data is in BattleBehaviorDefs.xml, I'm almost certain that I've seen the fike that degines what the various ship classes are, but I'm not able to find it, but them I gve up & started omoving on lol... looks like it's <AIShipClass>Whatever</AIShipClass> in ShipClassDefs.xml (possibly other places too)

starbase modules certainly could be simplified (trivially), galcivIII had starbase types as very inflexible (much to my disappointment when I tried changing that at the time)... while GalcivIII has them more like everything else as to the number of modules required to finish thwem, it's really not a big deal since there is plenty of tech reducing their size/adding size to hulls. Building them only takes a littke work early on, later in they are not a big deal to build up.

on the subject of code to nerf drones.. hole sagefdajs... If I'm not mistaken, this is being spawned"

ShipBlueprintDefs.xml:

<ShipBlueprint>
<InternalName>AIDefenseSniperBlueprint</InternalName>
<ShipHullType>Tiny</ShipHullType>
<Role>Assault</Role>
<RequiredComponentType>BeamWeapon</RequiredComponentType>
<RequiredComponentType>BeamWeapon</RequiredComponentType>
<ComponentType>Shields</ComponentType>
<ComponentType>BeamWeapon</ComponentType>
<ComponentType>BeamWeapon</ComponentType>
<FillerComponentType>BeamWeapon</FillerComponentType>
<FillerComponentType>BeamWeapon</FillerComponentType>
<FillerComponentType>BeamWeapon</FillerComponentType>
<FillerComponentType>Shields</FillerComponentType>
</ShipBlueprint>

shiipclassdefs.xml: (also other race versions in shipclassdefs and ai along with not ai versions of each)

<ShipClass>
<InternalName>AIDefenseTerranSniper</InternalName>
<DisplayName>AIDefenseTerranSniper_Class_Name</DisplayName>
<Description>AIDefenseTerranSniper_Dec</Description>
<ThumbnailOverride>Temp_Terran_Sniper_Alpha_01.png</ThumbnailOverride>
<ShipHullType>Tiny</ShipHullType>
<ShipRule>FavorBeam</ShipRule>
<ShipDesign>Terran_Sniper_01T</ShipDesign>
<AIOnly>true</AIOnly>
<AIShipClass>Defender</AIShipClass>
<StrategicIcon>Sniper</StrategicIcon>
<BlueprintDef>AIDefenseSniperBlueprint</BlueprintDef>
</ShipClass>

The lack of hull templates/blueprints that make use of carrier modules is likelty the reason why the ai doesn't use them

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Tetrasodium

Join Date 03/2006

+17

thecw, thank you greatly, that vastly simplifies things. I will probably release an update to take advantage of that later

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Tetrasodium

Join Date 03/2006

+17

V2.5 here

Nutshell version:

A drone AI module has been added, it grants +30 ShipRange (i.e. the sae thing life support gives but more) aat the expense of -75% hp, -75% weapons range, & -50% weapon damage. (all types), this module is (hopefully) included on carrier module spawned ships. combined with the hull changes, this might hit too hard, but feedback will tell since I'm heavily affected by the b4 patch 1 ctd bugs! the 1 weight seemed reasonable gven the penalties & lack of a need to keep the crew out of stasis

The modded cargo hull on an immense map with a DroneAI module can cover roughly a quarter/maybe third or so of the map making meeting neighbors before well into the age of war less of a stroke of luck after significant work to do so.
DroneAImodules are a new ComponentType (DroneAI ones to be specific) so they could be nailed to the things spawned by carrier modules

Ship hulls have more base HP that scales as the hull sizes increase. TacticalSpeed , akaShip maneuvering(I believe), is better for ships below medium & about the same/slightly better for those above weapons ranges for hulls >medium are longer, shorter below medium
cargo hulls have a multiplier for sensor rabe & life support range that works out to being roughly == to stock without either being added but +50% when they are

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Cool, I will see if I can give it a test run today, I will at least get a new game started. I am also working on the review of this new LG 24" gaming monitor that has a 144hz refresh rate. So I bought Sniper 3 Afrika core because it was on sale on Steam. It is a pretty cool game overall. It give you lots of ways, like splinter cell, to accomplish your missions. I have decided to upgrade my computer Motherboard, so I can run dual Radeon R9 290's, It was very hard to find a MB that had the 2 pcie 3.0 x16 lanes separated enough to leave cooling space between them. It was either that or water cooling the cards and that just wasn't where I wanted to go at this time. I decided to get an ASUS X79 Deluxe board, it should last at least another 2 years.So be patient I will get testing vigorously, soon.

So I will be down for a couple of days probably, because I do anticipate having at lease one major issue.

Edit; Tried out the mod, didn't even make it to the tech tree screen, without a crash. There are obviously some issues.

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OK, I am back up and running. There were some mega driver/ai suite issues with that board I bought. Now that I have everything cleaned up, it is running like a champ! Getting around 8k on 3Dmark Firestrike Extreme!! Now all I need is a freesync monitor and I will be in gaming heaven!! (like say a Benq xl2730z)

Since the release of beta 5 is close, and it has so many features, lets work on the mod when it's released! Cool cool!

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