Excerpt from the thread "GC: Altarian Prophecy Beta 4 (1.49J)"




So the influence calculation is going to be fixed for the standard GalCiv

Please, I am posting this all over the place because I'm simply not getting an answer as I wait patiently.
Will 1.21 address the in game (not Metaverse) scoring difficulties in regards to techs. If you save and reload, all previous techs researched are lost in the scoring. They will be reflected in the techs discovered, but only the techs researched after you loaded the saved game will be counted under techs researched!
This left me with a whopping 1 tech researched and 143 discovered in my last submitted game! (A Beyond Human victory)
Somebody? Anybody? An answer?

Me thinks some of you remember MOO1 much differently than it was (or certainly how I remembered it).

MOO 1 was fantastic but the AI cheated like crazy and the end game was always a race of genocide.

 

Frogboy--we will test the theory of whether or not we are remembering MOO 1 correctly, since we are taking pains to pull it out of mothballs and play it again over at RB. Sirian has already played at least one game, and has put up a site on the game. MOO was not perfect, but there were plenty of things it got right--replayability was tremendous, because the races and some randomness in the the AIs focus and strategy made for interesting play, as well as how the tech tree was not completely fixed.

IMO, GalCiv has come the closest in the bredth and scope of the game to MOO 1. What it is missing is refinement of the AI (to give it more depth--not just a military only strategy), along with other lesser changes. The lack of AI depth is my major problem with GalCiv. I would be happy to share any more thoughts on this with you or any of your team. Other than running and playing in our succession games--almost all of my GalCiv playtime has been in looking at how the AI plays and the game balance in the latest AP beta build. I know that you have active threads for bugs, but do not know what is your preferred method for non-bug game balance issues.

I was very very familiar with the AI in MOO 1. It was not very complex. You are, I suspect, confusing randomness with strategy.

It also massively cheated. MOO 1 was a great game, but it was not known for its AI. 

It's ultimately a matter of taste though. GalCiv isn't MOO. It's not designed to be.

We consider Galciv to be "done". The next major AI changes would be in a sequel or somethign where the game rules will be radically different.

Frogboy said:


LOL! Yeah, I've thought that once or twice during this dialog.




SLW, I had read here that Cari thought she'd fixed that errant behavior. Should be fixed in 1.21, IIRC. You reported that issue in the bug thread, didn't you?
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I'm sure StarDock are sorting the issue out, but cross posting this everywhere just gets irritating, mainly due to the fact that I think EVERYONE knows about this issue by now, and it doesn't just affect techs! UP issues are not saved either and I find that even more game stopping than the scoring! It usually takes a week to a fortnight of testing before a new patch is released, so unless it's rushed through, I'd assume this will be the same


As for the MOO1 debate, I had to laugh, because the whole point of GalCiv was to try and improve how the AI plays, and people are saying how they preferred the AI in MOO1, and that was based almost entirely on randomness! What kind of strategy can be deployed against completely random enemies?! Diplomacy would be pointless! I back Frogboy's comments 100%!

For instance what rational explanation is there when a race who was your ally one minute could turn into your enemy in 1 turn for no reason, simply because it was build into the programming to do that at some point regardless of what you did in the game? I'd say GalCiv was a big step forward compared to that, regardless of it's issues!
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Sorry to have irritated you. :notsure:

But of course, this long tangent is not irritating
Kind of getting sick of the whole tone of the forum. Plenty of people out there who believe that the disscusions of minutae are sooo much more important than what anyone else may have to ask.
This used to be a completely fun and open place where people communicated, asked questions (even dumb ones), and shared solutions; now it has become a place to flame those who know less than you might.

SLW, I've noticed the same thing. I think that the embers are still hot from the whole empire recruiting thing (I don't want to start anything--so if this is a sore spot, move along. Nothing to see here).

LOL LOL LOL

I've been staying out of this, but I just wanted to point out trhe fact that a debate isn't always a bad thing. Nobody's flaming anybody else, and from what I've read things have stayed surprisingly mature. (mocking someone's opinion while hiding behind cutesy emoticons might come close to crossing the line, but for the most part spite hasn't been part of the equation.)

But I do have to wonder if there's any point in continuing this discussion. You've all repeatedly made your points, and the posts have been interesting to read, but I think you just have to accept the fact that short of hell freezing over neither one of you is going to change the other one's opinion.

Is GalCiv good? Yes. Is it perfect? No. The same could be said about MOO1 or any other game. And the players themselves are different too. One person may like something about a game that the other person dislikes, and vice versa. Both opinions are perfectly valid; there's no need to discredit someone elses to promote your own.

Okay, I'm done. That probably accomplished absolutely nothing, but I wanted to give it a shot...

memorys are funny things....

we tend to forget the bad things and remember the good things...

eg: I just played RFTS (thats "Reach for the stars" for those who are too young to remember it.. it was one of the first of this type of game) and it was absolutly nothing like i remembered it... the same can be said by lots of old software out there including MOO ("Masters of orion" not no 1 after it.. as it wasn't known that there was going to be sequeals..)

I did find that moo2 however was pretty much as i remembered it.. it had more bugs than galciv.. it was very easy to beat on every level and yes it was the best game of its kind at the time... moo3 went backwards because (in my opinion) it was simply too complicated... In galCiv at least you can visit every planet from everywhere.. your not restricted to space lanes... LOL... Goveners in GalCiv need to have specific roles.. and be able top give advice as to what needs to be built and when, who needs to be attacked and when etc... etc... at the moment the governers are just building stacks

SLW, I'm sure the great people at SD are going to fix the non-permanent permanent UN issue and game only remembers what's happened since the reload for final tallying issue. They've taken care of such matters quickly and well in the past. If you've reported it as a bug in the bug thread, then the Great and Mighty CariElf certainly saw it and put it on the list of things to fix. Seriously.

DarkPaladin, perception is an odd thing. If people think you made the program faster (because you pop up a "Progress %" box or something), then they will be happy. Even though just calculating the percentage of work remaining, how long that will take, and displaying a dialog box showing them an inflating "Progress" bar actually slows down the program. Something to remember... perception is more powerful then the reality.

Actually; the issues, as far as I can tell, have been delt with in the AP public beta as Carielf so kindly informed me on another thread.
I'm sitting here trying to think of what to say next, and frankly all I can think of is: this is no fun. So, I'll read the posts from time to time, try and help a newbie once in a while, and forget the rest.
So Long & Thanks for All the Fish.

SLW:

Eh. Most of the time, this place is pretty fun. But there are two types of repeating flamage:
* Proposed scoring changes/fixes
* How GalCiv sucks (now that I've played it awhile and a total authority on such things) and how Game X is much better then GalCiv and doesn't suck.

You skip those, and you'll have tons of fun here.

I think the rate that starbases go up should in some way be tied to the galaxy.

How about the # free is 1/2 the radius. Beyond that, the price is a function of the ratio of starbases to planets you own. Say 1000 credits * non-free starbases owned / planets owned.

Or perhaps sectors owned instead of planets owned.

LeronPechtel, you are a genius. In fact, Stardock already implemented your first suggestion for the latest AP beta. Wow!! Synergy!

I read your post and went and played a game myself - still highly addictive even now - thanks for the reminder JTQ

Anyone else that wants to download the game can do so here http://www.the-underdogs.org/downloadfile.php?file=games/r/reachstar/files/reachstar.zip&id=886

That was pretty much what I was trying to get at I guess, how people seem to be complaining about GalCiv and comparing it to games years old. Trust me, I've replayed many old games I used to love, and the few that you can still get to run are not as good as your memory would have you believe!

And as for the forum's tone, yeah it has degraded, the whole "I want and answer from StarDock and I want one NOW" kind of thing is a typical example of it

And finally, if GalCiv sucks? What on earth are you doing still playing it folks! I'll sell MOO1 to whomever wants it, only $29.99 plus P&P personally I happen to love the game

Next we'll be getting L337 gamers... oh hang on, we already have one on the forum, what am I saying!

Is 1.21 out now?

-doug

Nope. Not yet. No date either.

I guess that they are waiting to catch all bugs that would be common between AP and galciv 1.21

ok. I suppose they'll post another message when 1.21
is out!

be well all!

-Doug

ok. I suppose they'll post another message when 1.21
is out!

be well all!

-Doug