I don't have GC4 yet as my circa 2012 computer is on deaths door and won't run it and something about a global pandemic made replacing it a pita (SOOON)

But.... are diplomatic or research still a viable victory path?     if conquest is the only viable way to win the game...  then the civs are not the issue...  the game balance is.

diplomacy seems to be too hard for people to usually keep friends and alliances it seems. and from what i've heard when you start to approach a research victory all the AIs, even allies, will go to war with you to try to stop you from winning. not sure if that's still the case in .91 but it's the last i heard.

That's interesting that Prestige Vic is possible without expanding.  That definitely adds a wrinkle in potential ways to win.  That's good to know.

Mimot: yea, I think food should be more of an important system generally speaking.  After all, if you can't eat - you don't have an empire..

oh, and influence seems to work too slowly to be a viable strategy compared to the others.

Well, I realize this is still the beta builds... but one would hope they balance that.

It is FUN to go out and war monger... but it is also fun to sit back turtle and win via other methods...   all routes must have viable races/options..  

just so u know influence just got a boost in today's patch. they're def focusing on it more now

For me, the Navigators and the Xeloxi are the hardest to play. It's almost like playing at a higher difficulty level. I almost put a warning on them "Not intended for beginning players".

The Mimot are the true villian of the galaxy of course and everytime I start beside them I die a little inside. They are getting a little nerf in the next update (less food on their homeworld, higher food consumption) because I want Mimot players to worry about keeping their little furry monsters fed.

The Manti are my person favorite just because all their Command ships are survey ships. I try to get 3 good leaders into command ships early and start bringing in those sweet sweet bonuses.

The Iconinans are weak or OP depending on map settings. Map settings also greatly impact the Corporate Sector and the Baratak.

Are your maps not teeming with hostiles? I find myself using my starting survey ship and early command ships as scouts and escorts. Even with hostiles set to "rare" there always seem to be at least 3 per sector even if the sectors are tiny. Probes are useless unless you are patient enough to control each individually, which is very annoying.

The Navigators are also very map-dependent. If they can find an empty sector to colonize, they can have a great game. I have not found the Baratak or Corporate Sector to be map dependent. To me they seem pretty strong regardless. The Xeloxi would be much better if they could control pirate bases they discover, not just be allied with them. I stand by my low ranking of the Iconians and suspect I overrated the Torians. I don't get the point of them. I'll try them next, maybe I'm missing something.

IDK, maybe something changed recently. I won't be able to play again until the weekend. I am in the middle of acquiring a more powerful system so that I can try larger maps.

Yeah, that's a good point on the Navigators.

yeah navigators can actually be pretty good if you just copy the civ and change the starting sector and homeworld.