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wasmguy
Join Date 10/2017
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Diplomacy

April 24, 2018 12:32:26 PM from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

Two quick questions.

 

How does the AI (any level but godlike specifically) determine your threat level? I just went from ripe to be conquered to my military build up concerns them in 7 turns by building 7 ships......

 

Why will the AI declare war from the other side of galaxy? Drengin and Snarthi are both terrible for this on insane maps. There can be 700 tiles between us yet they think I am a viable target when clearly I am not (see above).

 

Personally I believe the AI needs a bit of a overhaul in the diplomacy department, but I am curious on other peoples thoughts on this game mechanic, both on how it exactly works and their opinions of it.

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PalaceGuardian
Horemvore
Join Date 08/2009
+108
Reply #1 April 24, 2018 3:18:20 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

Firstly I have to point out I have alot, and I mean alot, of experience with the Diplomacy in this game. I have to point this out or my reply could be seen as a waffler or a discontent player just ranting. I am neither (well a bit discontented with a specific bug atm but that dont count).

I find the Diplomacy in this game to be very uninformative for the player, it hides alot to do with the --- and +++ it uses in the UI, some of these modifiers can range alot more than a --- (-3?) or +++ (+3?). I had hoped that the new expansion would have fixed this uninformative nonsense tbh. And yeah its nonsense to me when a + can mean +1 or +10 and a - can mean -1 or -10.

I do understand your frustration or confusion in regards to the 7 ships changing things dramaticly like it did for you, but, it can, that is all down to how "powerfull" the AI think your Military is. This can change from day to day with the AI, it has one of the largest variations when it comes to the modifiers that effect it. (Ships, Ideology and Personalities)

I totaly agree with the DoW's when said Civ is completely out of range, this is down to the fact the Out of Range modifier seems to cap at +10 but the Rip for Conquest has no cap and can end up -30 or more depending on how weak they think you are. You could fix this with a simple (double the value for it) xml edit btw (DiplomaticModifiers.xml).

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wasmguy
Join Date 10/2017
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Reply #2 April 24, 2018 4:01:02 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

Thank you Horemore. I was under the misguided belief that you explained. Modding is not something I am usually into but I may make an exception for this

 

I would really like to point out that I utterly believe there is way too much emphasis on military score. It seems that it is just about all the AI takes note of. Sure they have 300+ ships which are totally useless even on godlike. I have fleets that more than match theirs stationed about giving me 1 turn coverage of my empire. My mil rank was deceptively low but I have basically teched out and have a production advantage of a god. All I did here was turn on ONE shipyard to create an uber fleet with range/speed to wage war. It happens every game at some point. It is just frustrating that a "godlike" AI still cant understand that his pea shooters are outclassed before you wipe the floor with them and send them back to the stone age.

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Horemvore
Join Date 08/2009
+108
Reply #3 April 24, 2018 4:31:01 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting wasmguy,
reply 2

It happens every game at some point. It is just frustrating that a "godlike" AI still cant understand that his pea shooters are outclassed before you wipe the floor with them and send them back to the stone age.

That is a totally different issue, AI has no access to Accuracy, Thruster, Dodge, Weapon Augments, Support Augments, Hitpoint or Repair ship components for thier main warships or the ability to stack Engines like a player does. They are limited by the ShipBlueprintDefs.xml which is deliberatly dumbed down, at a guess, to keep the normal AI from kicking most players butt

Again its modable, but, there are lots of factors you have to take into account (Mass reduction, Capacity increases, Race Traits, Abilities), that the AI may or may not take or get ahold of. Balancing this is a royal pain (im trying to atm)

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wasmguy
Join Date 10/2017
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Reply #4 April 24, 2018 5:02:22 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

Again, something I did not know. It's no wonder that every game seems to have a breaking point where you just know that you have it won. After that you are just toying with them and playing their emotions. In saying that, I do believe it is the best AI I have come up against but when their bonuses are overcome, they still fall to pieces like any other AI.

 

If there is ever a mod that improves the AI so it is challenging (not just overly cheesed as they always are) I would definitely be interested in giving it a run.

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Franky999
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #5 April 24, 2018 5:17:21 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

I remember a discussion about scaling difficulty.

There is a mod for endless legend that does that: as the time passes, the AI get increasing bonuses...

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wasmguy
Join Date 10/2017
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Reply #6 April 24, 2018 5:35:59 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

yeah, again the AI in that is broken. They are much better diplomatically within the limited system it has, but cannot build a city to save itself (winter boroughs, who needs them...). Back to increasing bonuses, I believe while yes, it would keep it challenging for longer, ultimately you would still get to that breaking point. More thought into developing a smarter AI would be a better way to go rather than thinking of how to better cheese them up for a challenge. Think of it like playing the computer at chess. You dont give it 10 queens to make a game more challenging, you up its decision making for favorable outcomes. I am sorry to say though, I have little/no modding experience or ability to make any worthwhile contributions as to how the AI might be improved, all I can do is point out its many flaws where it is below par.

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Merlex
Join Date 10/2012
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Reply #7 April 24, 2018 7:02:17 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Horemvore,
reply 1

I find the Diplomacy in this game to be very uninformative for the player, it hides a lot ...

In more ways than one. Slightly off topic- But it would be nice to click report on other empires, and also see my treaties with them and when they expire. My current game has 42 opponents, and scrolling through all my agreements, looking when my open borders with the Vorlons is going expire is a pain.

While I'm on the subject. treaties like free trade agreements research treaties and such, need to go both ways.

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wasmguy
Join Date 10/2017
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Reply #8 April 24, 2018 7:16:45 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

I used to have the same issue Merlex. I just went into the options and turned on all notifications. Wont tell you when it will expire, just lets you know that it has so you can renew it asap. Hope that helps

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Merlex
Join Date 10/2012
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Reply #9 April 25, 2018 9:02:52 PM
from Galactic Civilizations III ForumsGalactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting wasmguy,
reply 8

I used to have the same issue Merlex. I just went into the options and turned on all notifications. Wont tell you when it will expire, just lets you know that it has so you can renew it asap. Hope that helps

Thanks! 

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