Gauntlet03 Gauntlet03

GRM Ideology 1.2 Now Available

GRM Ideology 1.2 Now Available

I've taken it upon myself to rebuild the Ideology system... it'll redo all the traits and eventually galactic events as well.

Goals:

1) Remove the "good VS evil" dichotomy. The three branches will all have moral ambiguity and represent more nuanced ideas. 

2) Each chain, if pursued, will have great benefits (duh) but will also include minor penalties.

3) Relatively balanced chains.

4) Removing the color coding (which creates a bias) and hiding the exact results of ideology events. Obviously events repeat and you will be able to figure it all out, but I hope to make the decisions harder. If I can I may even randomize or have split bonuses (decisions that contribute to two ideologies instead of just one). 

5) Most likely making basic Ideology Buildings universally available from the beginning, allowing player's to produce their ideology points without relying on events and colonization. Allbeit more slowly.

 

 

The three Ideological edges that I'm considering right now?

Egalitarianism, Materialism, and Survivalism

AKA: Collectivist, Capitalist, and ... Militarists?

 

A conservative minded empire like ancient China? Mostly going to focus on the Egalitarianism with a dose of Survivalism.

The Roman Republic? Materialist Survivalists

The European Union? Egalitarianism and Materialism (sounds weird but it just means they are balanced).

 

Not saying its perfect and I welcome suggestions, but its a good springboard for something better than "Good, Evil, and Reasonable People".

 

Currently I've started on the Egalitarianism Chains and have two:

1) Cultural Diffusion: Trade Bonuses, freighters, influence, and a little diplomacy. Minor Gross Income Penalties.

2) Intellectual Pursuit: Scientists, Spies, Research at the cost of Morale (networking your people to process data while they sleep? Sure!!)

 

Thoughts?

 

PS: Removing the color-coding on all these icons is a bit of a chore lol... 

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Reply #26 Top

Oh yeah, I'm starting by updating all the original events, there are modifications to the choices, but the event descriptions themselves are generally unchanged. I added the Civil War one you see above just to practice making an event from scratch. I'll of course add a whole bunch of events, but first things first.

I'm also trying to make 2-3 Variants of each event, so that you have the same event, but potentially different choices. Should make it harder and harder to memorize which choices add which ideology.

Reply #27 Top

Quoting Old-Spider, reply 21


Quoting Gauntlet03,

Questions:

Anyone know how to change the labels in the Ideology Screen?



I thought I knew, but I was wrong.  Then I remembered finding some text in a different file, checked it and found it there.  Look in the English\Text directory for Crusade, and find the file UIText.xml.  The three Ideology labels are in there.

These two are next to each other.

  <StringTable>
    <Label>NEUTRAL_LABEL</Label>
    <String>Pragmatic</String>
  </StringTable>

  <StringTable>
    <Label>MERCILESS_LABEL</Label>
    <String>Malevolent</String>
  </StringTable>

The Benevolent one is later in the file

  <StringTable>
    <Label>BENEVOLENT_LABEL</Label>
    <String>Benevolent</String>
  </StringTable>

End of Old-Spider's quote

 

 

Thank you Old Spider! Works like a charm!

Reply #28 Top

this sounds awesome. i have disliked that whole good, evil neutral thing for awhile, but  colonization events just seems bland compared to what the potential bonuses were pre crusade. so bringing back both some variety in rewards and new events  would be good.

this may not be possible but it would be nice to see an increase to the points generated for say every 5-10 picks from a tree. so at unlock you get like the .1 or w/e pts, but if you have 10 points in that tree it generates you more points 

guess you also have to take a look at the galactic events too, as those add ideology points. hmm wonder how this all plays with the faction creator too, since it lets you set an id

Reply #29 Top

The Ideology pick in faction creator just sets the ideology of the race when played by the computer... no effect on the player or race when played by the player.

 

As for how many picks/points etc... for now, I'm actually lowering or splitting points for events down. Since you can build a building that will get you 1 point a turn, I think to keep the current overall rate of Ideology I need to tone down the benefits. That being said most events still award 10 points, sometimes though a certain choice awards 15, or just 5. For example there is one choice in one event that basically chooses to "do nothing" and rewards no points. The alternatives being rather unfortunate... but awarding points.

 

So we will see how it evolves... but I think you can definitely mess with how many points unlock things.

Reply #30 Top

Quick Update!

Almost done with the beta version, hopefully will release this weekend. It will have converted all the events and adjusted things, so you don't know which choice is which ideology... however most events will only have one version of the event right now. 

The version after the Beta release will have multiple versions of each event, and add several new events. 

Reply #32 Top

This MOD is absolutely awesome.

I linked your video on the GC3 discord.  Some of the community rarely stops by the forums.

Reply #33 Top

YOU are one creative dude :thumbsup: .  How will diplomacy interact with this?

Reply #34 Top

Right now, nothing has changed... other than you will find some diplomacy bonuses in all three trees here and there.

 

Next version will focus on making additional versions of events and making sure they are compelling and not so obvious. In addition, just adding 10 or so new events with pictures... and probably working on bringing back ideology dependent buildings.

Beyond that? Dunno. OHHHHH and I should mention, that this beta version also messes with Anomalies... you'll find graveyards are back (but rebalanced and rare) and Precursor anomalies are much rarer.

 

@Go4Celerity

I should really join that.... want to send me an invite?

Reply #35 Top

@ Gauntlet

It's in an old post.  I'll post it later, gotta watch another episode with the gf first.

 

Reply #36 Top

Here: https://discord.gg/JN2XH6A

Was pretty active for about 6 weeks after Crusade's release, but it's rather dead now.  Lotta people hanging around waiting for something to happen.

Reply #37 Top

Hey guys! Just wondering if any of you have some feedback on the mod! I'm working on the next version, which will clean things up a little bit, add some more alternative events... AND start adding a BUNCH (maybe 30) new Colonial Events!

Reply #38 Top

Unfortunately I haven't had time to get any game time for the last couple of weeks.  I hope to be able to free up some time by next weekend.  Really looking forward to it, all the modifications really sound good.

Reply #39 Top

GRM Ideology is an innovative mod (like all of your work). The original Ideology function was too formulaic and gamey. Your mod blurs the "morality" lines and significantly adds to Crusade's immersion. For example, your concept of making a decision without knowing the outcome is a brilliant device. 

I haven't played it enough yet to offer any constructive feedback, other than it still needs some balancing. 

How does it effect the AI? Were the benevolent, pragmatic and malevolent choices built into its if/then structure?

Great job.

 

Reply #40 Top

So we are able to mod the ideology trees themselves, and not just the events?    I couldn't find the XML for it under Crusade.

Reply #41 Top

Quoting tetleytea, reply 40

So we are able to mod the ideology trees themselves, and not just the events?    I couldn't find the XML for it under Crusade.
End of tetleytea's quote

Nor could I.

.... because Crusade doesn't alter those files and I didn't think to look for them in the base game files instead.

Reply #42 Top

Oh yeah... totally moddable... CultureTreedefs and culturetraitdefs

Reply #43 Top

I see that now.   There is an "Action" keyword on a lot of them.    

e.g. Pragmatic, Negotiator 5, "Upon someone taking your homeworld, all races not allied to the other guy immediately declare war on him."

The way it's implemented:   <Action>DeclarationOfWarByNeutralPlayers</Action>

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Actions correspond to C++ routines.   Looks like we have some power to re-balance the Ideology trees, but we are somewhat constrained on what all we can do.    I'm sure we can reuse their Action fields a little, but we have to go it alone, without any documentation:

e.g.  Pragmatic Builder 1, 3 free constructors:   

<Action>AwardShipOfClass</Action><StringParam>AwardConstructorBlueprint</StringParam>
How do I make it award a ship of my own design?   I don't know.

 

 

 

 

Reply #44 Top

p.s.  What in the world is Slave Trade?

 

GreedTrait4

<Action>PlayerChangeTradeRouteType</Action>

<StringParam>SlaveTradeRoute</StringParam>

 

 

 

    <InternalName>SlaveTradeRoute</InternalName>
    <DisplayName>SLAVE_TRADEROUTE</DisplayName>
    <ModTargetType>Slave</ModTargetType>
    <PlanetIncomePercentage>0.05</PlanetIncomePercentage>
    <PerTileBonus>0.025</PerTileBonus>
    <PerTileBonus_Min>1</PerTileBonus_Min>
    <PerTileBonus_Max>250</PerTileBonus_Max>
    <PerTurnBonus>0.1</PerTurnBonus>
    <PerTurnBonus_Min>1</PerTurnBonus_Min>
    <PerTurnBonus_Max>250</PerTurnBonus_Max>
    <Bonus>
      <EffectType>ProductionPoints</EffectType>
      <Target>
        <TargetType>Colony</TargetType>
      </Target>
      <BonusType>Multiplier</BonusType>
      <Value>0.05</Value>
    </Bonus>
    <Bonus>
      <EffectType>Approval</EffectType>
      <Target>
        <TargetType>Colony</TargetType>
        <TargetQualifier>EitherPartnerIsEntrepreneur</TargetQualifier>
      </Target>
      <BonusType>Flat</BonusType>
      <Value>1</Value>
    </Bonus>

<A

Reply #45 Top

Trade routes deliver slaves (raw production) in addition to cash.

Reply #46 Top

Nudging this thread back to GRM Ideology mod. Gauntlet seems to have quite a bit of the code edits worked out. I think some feedback as far as balance (or unbalance) and where perks appear on the Egalitarianism, Individualism and Survivalism tracts might speed up the mod's development. 

The philosophical progression of each path is very well thought out. The storylines are interesting and logical (unlike the original game). The text alone is an incredible amount of work.

The mod probably works without the 3 specialized buildings. Or maybe the Egalitarian gets to build THE building sooner.

 

 

Reply #47 Top

I am using the mod and I like it. Needs some work on the text problems and of course it will be better with further development. It has definitely elicited different choices. The only criticism I have is that some of the negatives are so severe, in game, I avoid the choice based on that negative vs my opinion. 

Reply #48 Top

Hey there! Thanks for the feedback, could you be more specific? 

Did you mean choices regarding Colonization Events... or the Ideology Tree?

Did you mean material choices, like -10% Economy VS -5% Morale, or did you mean the... "morality" of a choice... like "Kill them all".

Reply #49 Top

That was rather vague.

Mostly the tree choices. When it is the colony events, I feel compelled to consider the positive and negatives vs the morality of the choice. When you think about it, that is the way it works in real life. What are you willing to do (or not do) to get the great deal.

I can understand the penalties in the colonizing events, but when you are in the tree the good or bad choices have already been made. I would prefer that tree choices be positive except for some logical, but moderate penalties to approval and influence. Some of the income penalties seem a bit Draconian. There are so many ways to make money, it doesn't make sense to penalize income for moral choices. I can understand a 1 time hit for choosing police state but after that, money penalties should be few and far between, particularly for survivalist.

I have also wondered about the initial building choices being given at the beginning. I can't recall the names but there is a military choice, a research related choice and a wealth choice. Doesn't picking one over the others put you in a certain camp right away. If it is possible it seems that one of the building should be awarded later in the game based on your colonization/event choices up to that point, say turn 100 for instance. As it is, I am always going to pick the money choice (Congress something ?), since I always am always double negative in trade and popularity to allow other trait choices. This is also the reason I am sensitive to money penalties. :)

BTW I miss the tree choice that increased the effective range of star bases. Maybe you could get that one back in somewhere. :)

Reply #50 Top

Sooo you might just a be a money player lol... also I've never gone negative income in Crusade so I guess i just don't see it as a big issue. But I'll take a look.

One-off penalties really won't be happening though... a Police State is a state of being that costs your government more funds and has a deleterious effect on the innovation and creativity of a society resulting in a lower overall economy. North Korea ain't exactly an economic powerhouse ya know?

Maybe think of the tree as more "lifestyle" choices for your civilization than immediate short term events. But I'll look at it, and probably soften the penalties a bit.

 

Also: I think the starbase range can be extended in the Individualism tree. I can certainly add that in somewhere if not. Great feedback, thank you.