An update:

Priorities are an issue. Dwarf Planets could be released now, but it isn't very exciting, and I want to make a second pass at the graphics. Stars should be my highest priority, but I can't really release them without Systems; just releasing them by themselves does no one any good without systems that use them. I'm not done researching star system architecture yet: it is a new discipline, and very difficult to get up-to-date references. For the record, a buddy of mine is a planetary geologist, and HE can't give me any good references! Most of the work is data-mining right now, with little synthesis.

Waffling on whether or not to go back to scripting to produce systems. I used scripting extensively in my GC2 modding, but that was a decade ago, and my skills are rusty. I also can't figure out how to use scripting to make it easier. I have a graphical method of designing systems (https://forums.galciv3.com/483162/page/1/#3678131), but translating that into a quick-and-easy input for a script might take longer than actually just entering the systems by hand.

I also want to make the stars look a little better... those red dwarfs just don't look right to me, but I am having trouble editing transparencies in The Gimp (not even going to try in PS). Ideally, I'd like there to be less black/ brown and more light-dark red in there, but it is difficult to match the graphic to a specific RGB color (the point of the mod is that the stars be their precise true color). Does anyone know how to change an image such that the average color is a particular set of RGB coordinates?

I have changed my tune on planets. Looking at what CAN be accomplished, and doing some more research/ number crunching, the original idea of having 100% habitable planets is not justified. For 36% of its ultimate history, Earth has not been/ will not be habitable even as an 'extreme world!' A geologist should have known better! Now, someday I may want to make lava planets livable (for Tholians?), but for now it just ain't happening.

I haven't checked, but it looks like Stardock fixed the code so that every planet can be 'extreme' now. This should make for a more realistic and interesting mod like the one I originally intended.

Based on research, I will have to do a major restructuring of the planet types to focus on the relationships of oxygen (and therefore life), carbon, water (ammonia, methane), and plate tectonics, and the geologic evolution of planets. Planets change 'type' through their history, and understanding that evolution is key to a realistic view of the galaxy. Planet 'types' will probably become less single-properties, and more scenarios: for example, a "low-grade greenhouse world mostly covered by ocean with abundant vulcanism" rather than "atoll world." The true 'extreme' worlds will be simply be worlds were life never evolved or has gone extinct. If this sounds more like the original game, it is, but at least it is based on science.

So now back to reading about system models and planet histories. I may also have to take a short break to do some real science.

Good stuff!

Unfortunately, I'm not sure the game does allow you to set every planet to 'extreme'--is that just a function of the <ExtremePlanets> element in the MapSetupDefs.xml? If so, I've tried a number of variations and not arrived at 100% extreme worlds. Also, is there a setting for how many special planets (like Serene, Desert, etc.) are in a given map?

If I missed something and the game does allow every habitable planet to be extreme or have special traits, you will be able to use that to create worlds that are only able to be colonized by (and optimized for) certain forms of life ("race types") just as the Aquatic type allows the Torians to colonize aquatic worlds without detriments. By adding different forms of life, you have even more options for how worlds are to be accessible, which I think is pretty awesome.

Essentially, all you'll have to do is add a <ColonizationPrerequ> of the RaceTrait (if you want only certain race types to be able to colonize it) and/or tech to the planet and then add any number of <ExtremeTypeModifier> to change how usable the planet is based on tech, race type, or other prerequisites. I was fiddling with this in the hopes of making some new extreme worlds, and was surprised by how simple it is in the xml, overall.

What I'm not sure about is how the AI would handle colonization in such a scenario... or what will have to be done to get the UI to work with such changes.

In any case, I'm very much interested in what you come up with!

It didn't work as of the last version. I haven't messed with it in Crusade yet. The game code doesn't seem to respect its own percentages/ proportions. One issue is that the system generates 'random worlds' outside of the normal 'planetary system' system. Horevmore suggested some ways around that, and they may work now.

I think there is a setting for how many worlds have traits (aside from extreme traits). I'll try to look around for it if I get a chance. FYI: adjusting the proportion of habitable planets is also not straightforward. There are at least two different settings, and I haven't figured out exactly how they interact.

Yup, that is my plan. So far, I have "fully aquatic," "ammonia," "methane," "arid," "cold," "low gravity," "high gravity," "cold," "anaerobic," "autotrophic," and "high pressure" as possibilities. I will never be able to implement more than a few of these, but I would like to make the code so that they can be added if someone wants to expand the mod. It would be really nice if you could combine them. Then again, it would be nice if you could combine planet traits easily too. Maybe in GCIV...

I was going to use the RaceTrait option at first, but it was limiting options. My plan is to go the tech route, and have a different tech tree for each RaceTrait. The disadvantage there is having to do more work EVERY time the tech tree changes. The great thing is that, the way the system is designed, you should ("should") be able to do both. I haven't done a test-run of either, and I await your results eagerly.

THAT is the rub! The mod I am working on could potentially create a patchwork of territories, and some confusion for the AI regarding how to colonize. I have faith that Brad designed a robust AI that can handle the challenge, but we shall have to see. Again, I eagerly await your results!

For now, I am desperately combing the literature for actual, honest-to-god estimates of the parameters I need to make the mod semi-accurate. Even with the huge Kepler dataset, it is hard to get information due to biases in the data, and a general interest in finding a new Earth. Also, the data are coming in too fast. If I could wait ten years, It would be MUCH simpler!

This looks interesting. Any chance you might put out an alpha version of the mod so that others could provide feedback on the non planetary data portions of your work?

GalCiv3MapDefs

 <PlanetTraitLikelihood>.75</PlanetTraitLikelihood>

Try setting this to 100%, then set extreme to 100%. Please tell me what happens!

Yes! I plan to have a beta up before the 19th of next month. It will have one type of system, with one age, all of the stars and remnants, and the dwarf planets. Planets may have their sizes re-scaled to match the new sizing.

Before then, look for a preview of the new star art. They look MUCH better now, IMHO.

wow, this project sounds amazing. cant wait

As promised, below is the new line-up. Note that the stellar remnants are in scale, which is why they are so hard to see. They have not been changed from the earlier, close-up picture.

Changes:

• changed all dwarf and giant textures; darker colors now are the named color of the star. This makes the M dwarf too red, but since you expect that, and you will see a lot of them, it seemed worth it. The background color of the star is still accurate;
• added O-class stars, mostly so other modders can use them (they are really really rare);
• added L-class main sequence dwarf (uses the purple texture and effects). Had to estimate the color. Again, rare, but I wanted to be complete;
• changed carbon hypergiant texture to the new 'brown dwarf' texture (you can barely tell);
• change M-class brown dwarf texture to be more color-accurate;
• changed the default yellow dwarf to a M [ edit G]5V like the other dwarfs, Sol is now special (doesn't matter, they are almost identical); and
• tried to redden protostar and add jet effect... failed.

The M-dwarf bothers me, it being so darned inaccurately red. Feedback would be appreciated.

To do (stars):

• add sub-brown dwarfs (these will be treated as planets, because that is basically what they are);
• add an extra hex around O, and possibly B dwarfs, because they are huge; and
• finish the first round of systems so you can use the stars.

... and here it is:

[HUGE EDIT]

Actually, these may not be final... I think I found a way to soften the lower dwarfs. And I'm putting the carbon giant back the way it was...

Change:

• Changed carbon hypergiant back to the old texture;
• Changed orange and red dwarfs to a modification of the brown dwarf texture; and
• Changed the L dwarf texture so that it bettter reflects the actual color of the star.

This produces a result that may not be as fancy, but seems closer to reality (except the L, which still uses that wacky purple texture...)

Here they are (the orange and red giants haven't been changed, they are there for comparison:

Brief update:

• PERL script for system XML is about half complete. When it is done, I will be able to enter simple codes (e.g., FD_1_3_0.15_0041-FD-d-hh-Gg), saving DAYS of XML entry;
• probabilities for systems will be automated! Talk about a time-saver... the details are terribly complex, but they should produce more-or-less accurate proportions. Sorry, lots of M-dwarfs;
• research says most "red giants" are really orange stars! What a cosmic rip-off;
• basic system architectures are set, but haven't been outlined for each star. Will save most of them for later releases... I gather people are more interested in the multiple systems;
• at least some systems will be generated automatically. I haven't worked out the details yet, this will wait for future releases; and
• added subgiants. They aren't very different from giants in terms of graphics, but they are about twice as common, so I felt lame not including them. Again, systems will probably wait for future releases.

As a complete noob I`m curious to the universe`s realistic potential for habitable planets. And considering your mod is realistic, this statement seems strange.

I take it you`re saying that the chances of finding plentiful Earth-like and or/diverse planets in real life would be extremely slim compared to what the game shows us? So if you were to represent this part realistically we would have perhaps a maximum of 4 or 5 habitable planets? Actually how many planets do scientists believe would be habitable on average in reality?

disregard

Short answer: we don't know how many habitable worlds are out there. POTENTIALLY habitable is easier to figure out, and depending on who you talk to, that number is typically in the millions. But there are "billions and billions of stars," so the real question is, how many game-habitable (shirtsleeve environment) planets should there be per star. That depends on life. We need oxygen, and oxygen comes from life. Life may be common, but to be game-habitable, you need oxygen in the atmosphere. That requires the evolution of oxygen-generating photosynthesis (only happened once on Earth). You also need water, which may actually be somewhat common. There are other factors, but it isn't unrealistic to have SOME game-habitable worlds..  probably more than 4-5 for a moderate-sized map.

I will include the math in the mod. Basically, Earth won't be "habitable" for much of its existence (about 1/4). Mars and Venus were probably 'slightly extreme' for a short period of time early in their evolution, and now they are way-extreme (Mars should be a 'barren world,' not game-habitable). So, for the three worlds we have near the habitable zone, there is only a game-habitable world in the system for 17% of the collective history of the system, and that is for a system we KNOW has had a habitable world! Our system isn't typical, so I need to wait and see how the numbers work out.

Anyway, since the premise of the game is that there are LOTS of civilizations out there, oxygen-generating life must be common, so there should be a reasonable number of game-habitable, unclaimed worlds. How many? I will try to keep that variable, as much as I can. However, almost certainly not as many as in the vanilla game. I'm thinking it will come out to maybe an easily-habitable world every 5-10 systems, with an 'extreme' world maybe every 2-4 systems. The 'colony rush' will be very different.

I hope that helps answer your question!

Perhaps you should also consider some changes regarding colonizing hostile environments.

For instance, we are quite able to colonize Mars, assuming we have the ability to get there with relative ease. Biospheres should be included in an early tech, (Planetology), making barren planets easily colonizable with restricted output.

On the gripping hand, planets like Venus are way down the tech tree.

For all the talk of terraforming planets like Mars, it will all depend on, 1), our ability to travel interstellar, 2), the availability of Earth-like planets. The centuries required to terraform a Mars type planet will make no sense if ready made environments are out there.

For the sake of realism, the time line should be changed from weeks to months, maybe years. If we perfected some kind of FTL system tomorrow. It would take hundreds of years to colonize and develop 3-4 Earth-like planets. It would take thousands of years to accomplish the empires we have in the game. (I have always thought adding a medical branch and longevity to the tech tree would be interesting.)

I love the idea of realism. The problem is adapting realism in a way that allows the game to be playable, without making it unrecognizable.

I am looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

Realism aside, even if the only thing to shake out of this is HUGE STARS, that's still worth putting out there. I would like to see a 26-hex star

Perhaps publish in phases?

The biggest I'm doing is five-across, and it is just barely five (you can still get in the outer hexes). The star radii are logarthimically transformed to keep them a sane size. MOst are just one hex; 'red' giants are three hexes across. Sorry!

Definitely! The planet stuff will take a LOT of time, and I need to wait for them to stabilize the XMLs and tech tree a little more so I don't end up having to redo everything.

Yeah, I can't change the code, so all planets will immediately be fixed the second you get the tech.

I am going to make this a bit more rational (I hope). The problem with Mars is that you can make a "colony" now, but it won't support many people. So, when you research Archologies, you can make a big structure capable of supporting a modest colony (like you said, restricted output). When you get low-pressure domes, you can expand more. Terraforming is WAY down the tech tree.

Yeah. I am going to assume that, with all the civilizations out there, there must be a goodly number of game-habitable worlds. Not as many as in the standard game. If anything, the plan is to make MORE 'uninhabitable' worlds habitable.

I think I mislead everyone regarding the idea of making every world extreme... the idea is to use the 'extreme world' code to make the planets more different... there will still be Earth-like planets, but they won't all be like Earth today. Some will be like the earth of the Ice Ages (cold, but bearable), some will be like Earth in the Age of Dinosaurs (hot, and muggy everywhere), some will be Snowball Earths (still habitable, just very cold), etc. They won't all need special techs to colonize (just parkas or good air-conditioning), but they won't just have one or two little differences like the 'trait worlds.'

Exactly, Fyunch (click)! However, high-pressure domes will let you set up a crappy little colony until then.

Another key factor when you consider the prospects of colonizing a planet that requires high pressure domes, is why in the heck are you there in the first place. We could easily colonize Antarctica, but there is no reason to do so. Any planet that requires extreme biospheres will need to have valuable resources that provide the motivation to colonize.

I have wondered why the GCIII devs include quite a few low PQ planets that are mostly ignored by human players. I would put a colony on a PQ 4 planet in a heartbeat if it provided a decent supply of Durantium that could be progressively mined. As it is, I pass up anything less than PQ9.

Overpopulation, desire to build more buildings... I would like to add code that gives you an extra tile for worlds with glaciers once you can colonize frozen worlds, etc. I'm not sure it is possible, or worth the hassle, but I'm looking into it.

The vanilla game provides bonuses for extreme worlds. They are small, though. In my version, it is because if you want to expand your empire, you will quickly run into the need to occupy extreme worlds. And, if you don't, and someone else does, they may flip your colony in the same system. What happens if the Drengin occupy Mars and Venus? Obviously, that is a contrived, unlikely, and problematic example, but I hope you get the idea.

Poor probability model. Their probabilities are more-or-less flat, which means you should get lots of low quality planets. I will fix this. It should be one a curve, with fewer poor planets, fewer excellent planets, and more planets around class 10-12. Some worlds (super-Earths, for example) would have a higher probability of having a high quality (in that case, simply because they are bigger), some would have a better chance of lower quality (light gravity worlds, moons if I can do them).

Occupying a low quality planet allows you to extend your influence, especially over that system, making it harder for your opponents to occupy higher-quality planets (possibly with more resources) that require other technologies to colonize. And resources. And additional range (life support takes up valuable laser space). And, again, for my mod, you'll be happy to get a planet you don't have to have special tech to colonize. Of course, later in the game, you will likely bypass these worlds, but in the initial colony rush, you won't

See Known Space: about half of Earth's colonies are crappy worlds like Plateau, Jinx, and Canyon. That's what was available.

This just got bad, see:

https://forums.galciv3.com/483583/page/1/#3681224

You can't have more than three planets in a lane now in the random system generator, and if you load the first and second lanes with three each it looks ugly and fake. not sure what to do now!

I am presently so depressed about the planet cap that I may abandon at least part of this mod.

With a planet cap of three random planets per lane and the horrible 'triangle of ugliness,' systems would have to expand from almost all being five lanes to most being eight or nine lanes, and some binary/ trinary/ quaternary systems being up to fourteen-fifteen lanes. This would significantly increase the size of star systems, and result in probably a four-fold reduction in total stars and systems. This is way too much for the game to be playable on any map setting. If I keep the systems small, there is very very little difference between systems, so little that attempting to produce multiple system architectures becomes nigh pointless. Since this has been the bulk of my year's long effort, that year of effort was wasted.

It looks like I have wasted a whole YEAR working on the systems part of this mod (the earliest records I have are from July 7, 2016, but I was working on it earlier). I have extreme PTSD, and this has been my way of keeping my brain occupied while everything else is too stressful to handle. I am debating whether to abandon the mod, and possibly the whole game. I don't want to rage-quit, and I am trying to talk myself out of it. However, my mental health is my primary concern, and this is taking a huge toll. I have lost a lot of things over the last eight years, and I've already had to deal with losing this game once.

The beta is almost finished. If I do abandon it, and the game, I will either post what I have now, or turn it over to Gauntlet (I'm so sure he wants that responsibility). It won't be maintained, but it will be out there for someone else to build on. Until I make a decision, I will try to work through the anxiety to get what I have to a stopping place.

Not to spam my own thread, but the reason I discovered these problems in the system generator is that I am in alpha a0.02 testing. The Stars module is almost finished, and the second draft of the Systems module is in now back in place and being tested. Dwarf planets will be in a0.03, and it was already the furthest along. I am still using my old system code, and beta may go out with those systems, despite the new system generation PERL script. There seems little point in wasting additional effort on systems.

Alpha 0.04 may be released, or handed over to a responsible party. If I can, I will try to get beta B0.01 out. I don't want this to be like Sandy's Systems Mod, which it just disappeared.

In the originally intended v1.00 mod, star type was a guide to resources... bluer stars had more thulium and promethion; yellower stars had more habitable worlds; protostars and remnants had more durantium; and the rest was window dressing. Some of that will still hold in the beta. The beta mod will have most of the bodies I had planned in it.. sub- brown dwarves may not make it, but they are essentially rogue planets anyway. System types won't be there, everyone will have the "solar-type" system (which is estimated to only be 15% of all architectures).

I have discovered the same problem everyone else has: now that the probability system for star systems seem to be working better (if this was changed, thank you Stardock!), using accurate proportions of stars produces a galaxy of red dwarfs. This is, of course, realistic, but no fun at all. Since I have log-transformed many aspects of the game, I am looking at a scientifically reproducible way to make the system probabilities, and therefore the star proportions, more agreeable. I feel I can justify this, since the game is about finding stars with planets, and red dwarfs have some habitable planet issues (they are flare stars when they are young). It will also allow you to actually see some of the more rare bodies like true blue stars, giants, and pulsars. Sorry, no supergiants, I'm done coding stars.

Actually, this does not appear to be working, it just works differently now. I am exploring it now to see if I can figure out the general rules. please see:

https://forums.galciv3.com/483583/page/1/#3681373

for more details.

As of now:

• Systems can barely be modded;
• When they are, they look ugly; and
• System weights do not correspond to system abundances in a linear manner.

I have wasted a year of my life on what amounts to just another star mod.

Don't freak out just yet. Let's see if we can get some developer feedback to make this work.

Try the chat area at discord: https://discordapp.com/channels/299942486095167489/300422711140810753