Ideology Talents Problem

Ideology Talents need to be shifted around

from GalCiv3 Forums

As the topic title says, I feel the ideology points should be shifted around a little. First, I'd switch Prolific (+2 pop) with Explorers (free class 10 planet). By the time I'm able to get it (actually, I've never gotten it w/o cheating, and I play on the largest map...), there's no point to +2 pop when you colonize because there's nothing worth colonizing. Civ 5 Brave New World did something similar, but was even worse- not only did you have to reach the industrial age (which by that time founding new cities was LONG over) and build 3 factories (or reach the Modern Age), it was a level 2 Order talent point (meaning you had to spend culture to get it up to level two, even more if you adopted social points). Atleast with this one, all you need is a minimum of 60 points (and that's if you didn't choose anything else- even more if you go for a Missionary Center).

Another Benevolent talent point that needs to move is Enticing. Only I feel it should be the 5th rank of that line.

Pragmatic also has a talent line that is hard to acquire, and that is the Negotiator line. The first rank is Neutral, which prevents war from being declared against you for 50 turns. Nice, but i feel is useless for 2 reasons. First, other races are a bit arbitrary in declaring war on me. I could be hated by a race and never have war declared on me, or a race could declare war on me as soon as I meet them (or in the case of the assassination random event, LONG before I meet them). What makes it worse is that while Benevolent and Malevolent each has 2 point every other turn buildings (Temple of Enlightenment and Elevation Foundation for Benevolent and Death Furnaces and Citadel of Revenue for Malevolent), the Pragmatic line only has one, the Arbitration Center, which is, you guessed it, behind Neutral. Meaning, you can either "waste" the first talent and get Arbitration Centers, or never get it at all. The campaigns makes it easier, since you're hard-coded to be at war with atleast the Dregin no matter what (and in the case of the Torian campaign, you're allied with the Arceans and Terrans), and since it doesn't end wars, you can grab it and not worry. To solve that problem, I'd bump up Neutral to rank 3, Keeping he next 2 in order. And it would make a lot more sense as well. Rank one would make you a better diplomat, rank 2 would show other races you can act as mediators, rank 3 would prevent war from being declared on you, rank 4 would anger all other races when war IS declared, and rank 5 would have all other races declare war on the faction that invades your homeworld.

And speaking of Ideology points, I asked this before, but got no reply what so ever, but what does Slave Masters (trade routes bring back slaves, Malevolent) actually do? And does it stack or does it replace/is replaced by Luxury (trade routes bring luxury goods, Pragmatic)? For that matter, what does Luxury actually do? I assume it doubles the value of the trade route, but I actually have no clue.

17,628 views 14 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv3 Forums Top


What makes it worse is that while Benevolent and Malevolent each has 2 point every other turn buildings (Temple of Enlightenment and Elevation Foundation for Benevolent and Death Furnaces and Citadel of Revenue for Malevolent)  the Pragmatic line only has one, the Arbitration Center,
End of quote

 

cough cough  preparedness centre  cough cough 

Reply #2 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I hear ya on the Civ 5 order issue. Why in the hell are we getting explorers well into the industrial age? The same issue is present here with the Benevolent line you are talking about. By the time I want extra pop on my colonies its not really worth it as everything is usually colonized by then. 

I can tell you that the Developers ARE going to do a review balancing pass on the Ideologies. This was mentioned I think in the last dev stream or maybe a post from Mormegiel. 

So they are aware of how some of the Ideologies are and they will do a pass on revising and moving them around. 

The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

The Preparedness Center is like the Intimidation Center or the Missionary Center, 1 point every 5 turns.

And that's why I cheat my ass off in both Civ 5 and this game, to make things like increased population) actually useful.

And I noticed still no answer on what Slave Masters actually does, and whether or not it stacks with Luxury...

Reply #4 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Luxury Trade routes increase the value/money you get on that trade route. I have seen this. A regular route that is valued at 35 will double or even go higher to 70 or 90. 

I believe the 'Bring back slaves' increases your production. Go to the planet where your trade route initiates and hover your mouse over the production tab. It should list an amount from the slave routes. Not sure if it does but it should. 

Reply #5 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Other than modding how donyou cheat.

Reply #6 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I usually play Malevolent and L/8/I Large galaxy/8 players (7 AI and normal random minors)/Incredible as it serves my colony rush followed by attacking style very well.

Sometimes I'll play Benevolent and while I can still be colonizing a few worlds after Prolific I agree with you that it should be switched with Explorers to make it more useful.

As for Enticing, this policy is the only reason I'd ever go Bene and it should be the final pick in the thread as you say since it can be very OP.

Pragmatic sucks for me except for the choice to get 3 free constructors very early and upgrade them to CS.

Much of the time I've won the game within two years so I don't have too much experience with Slave Masters, but at last check it was almost useless. Only trade routes created by me and maybe only those created after I took the trait became slave trade routes. Unless it has been changed all slave trade routes do is to add +5% manufacturing per route to the home planet. This is basically meaning less since it doesn't stack and the home planet typically has +several hundred manu by then.

Good to read that the devs will be addressing ideologies and I will stress PLEASE DON'T NERF ANYTHING or you'll make this game less strategic and less fun.

Reply #7 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I do not understand your issue with attaining Prolific on a large map.  I do it every game as a standard order.  I do one Pragmatic choice for the constructors, (yummy) and then beeline to Prolific, using the extra colony ship and planet along the way for those Ideology points.  I take whatever Benevolent choice it gives me and deal with the results and then each colony from then on has a better start.  I actually do a very hardcore all-Benevolent choice as much as I can and with a 50 planet empire and the right buildings I work my way through several branches of the Benevolent ideology, not all of them in any one game, but pretty far before I score a Tech victory.

Reply #8 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Unless you are editing the Ini which actually allows every one ai included to benefit, just playing a certain way is not cheating. The game is ment to have exploits playing a certain way. 

A good example is Erischild vrs Me. I also take constructors and the first bene of a free colony ship. From there I build both a dedicated Research planet and an Economy planet. 

I changed from the Bene line and now LOVE the Malevolent production line. Everything is better with butter...errr production! I will then do diplomacy to get the aggressors off my back but it is not an answer. Since I rarely build any miliary ships till medium I will have that one asshat that DoW's me thinking I am a push over.  Alas, since I have lots of production and that awesome death furnace we keep pushing people into, I can crank out medium ships every turn! 

Fun times!

Reply #9 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

when I say I cheat, what I mean is I use the console to give me culture points and credits (but that's about it, although it can be used for more). I also make a map that gives me a lot of the relics (culture, approval, research, manufacturing, and economic, in that order), plus I create a section of the galaxy that suits my tastes, lots of 26 pq planets, and quite a few precursor worlds. And the more I tinker with my maps, the more I cheat. I've learned that a shipyard can't be sponsored by more than 5 planets, but once you have a shipyard, it can be sponsored by more than 5 planets after colonizing them. I am not sure if it recieves all the benefits, though.

Reply #10 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I understand what you are doing, but that does amount to playing an entirely different game.  However, even in the most vanilla of rules, I do not understand why you say you have difficulty achieving the ideology Prolific.  I can get there by settling 6 planets if I mindlessly beeline.  What are you doing instead?

Reply #11 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I also have the problem of detouring to Missionary Center, plus the Pragmatic line (freighter and the entire constructor line, plus the Pragmatic Center, and the Intimidation Center of the Malevolent line) so I end up settling all the worlds I'm interested in and not getting the useful point when I actually need it... :(

Reply #12 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Then your original complaint is actually based on your play decisions more than the actual balance of the ideology system.  Good luck with that.  I don't think we can help you.  :)

But have fun anyway!!!

Reply #13 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

 I will concede some of it is my playstyle, but I still think the +2 pop is a bit far down the line

Reply #14 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Don't you mean cheatsytle? :grin:

Pragmatic 3 Constructors as first choice, Free Colony Ship as 2nd, Intimidation Center(very OP improvement in my book) as 3rd, Prep Center as 4th, Missionary Center as 5th then I beeline down the rest of the Colony line in Benovelant. I still do not have an issue getting that +2 pop fairly early. On the odd occasion its wasted, but thats more down to my playstyle of mostly going for the non penalty desicions.