Aesthetic/performance issues with new UI

Here are my issues with the beta 7 UI. I'm posting this in hope of improving the experience.  Several of these issues have been posted by other users but they are still an issue. I'm not in charge of the decision making but if i was in charge these are the things I would change.

 

1. The progress bar in auctions

I miss this as a visual representation of when an auction is going to end from the old UI (absent in the new UI). I've failed to bid on several auctions in beta 7 because I thought I had more time.

 

 

2. The font

Quick! Someone tell me if that's $90 or $98. This picture is zoomed in and enlarged. Now imagine having to figure it out quickly next to a bunch of different numbers.

 

 3. Extra decimal points

 No explanation necessary.

 

 

4. HQ upgrade popup

3 issues here.

First the spacing doesn't allow enough room to fit all the numbers in the same line so it throws your eye off visually.

Second having the resource requirements separated by lines (as it was before) and having the header boxed in and colored breaks everything up visually and makes it quicker and easier to read and process all this information. 

Finally when you still need a particular resource to upgrade the font was white to call out what you were lacking. I think that was really important to have and would like to see that back in again. 

 

 

 

5. Black Market


The black market in the new UI is considerably smaller. That makes it harder to read, quickly distinguish what's on the market, and harder to read the prices. The new upgrade button is almost the size of 3 black market items. I miss being able to see the black market. 


 

 In the new UI you can fit the entire black market in 1/3 of the new upgrade panel (below is to scale). Which panel do you use more often?

 

6. Building popups

This is a zoomed in version and I still can't read how much power is being drawn from this building (because of both the size and the red font). Just about everything on this panel is hard to read during normal gameplay. 




7. Chat screen is hard to read (particularly over top ice)

There used to be a shaded region behind all the text and some shadowing to make it easier to read everything. It's really hard to read the text right now even when it's not ice. I had to squint just to read my own writing earlier when talking with vievi during a game. 

 
 
 
8. Font in the engineering lab is way too small to read


Notice how much larger and easier to read the numbers are. Also take note of how hard it is when you get to 4 digits for a resource. Very hard to read.


9. Auction font is too small for high bidder and high bid


I mess up auctions because I can't tell if i'm the high bidder or what price the auction is going for because it's really small. Notice how big the font is to the right for comparison on the same screen.


10. HQ summary
 
I couldn't quite put my foot on what was wrong with the HQ summary until I went back to the old UI. It's basically the same issue I brought up in point #4. Separate some of the sections to make it easier to read so it's not just one massive blob of information that runs together. I look at the right image and it reminds me of people that don't use paragraphs when they type online. Your eyes glaze over and you end up understanding none of it.

 
One last issue that I still have is an issue with lag which i reported earlier. I've never had lag with betas 3-6 but beta 7 gives me lag issues when I found, upgrade, build buildings right after an upgrade, and when I build special buildings. I suspect others are still having this issue as well.
 
I understand that the main focus for beta 7 was making it functional. That being said the combined aesthetic and performance issues above taken in cumulative make playing the game more of a chore for me and sucks all the fun out of it. It's too hard to process most of the information when you have to squint to read things and you can't make quick decisions.

These issues are really simple fixes but hadn't been addressed yet to this point. I hope this helps. 

 

 

 

 

42,158 views 16 replies
Reply #1 Top

I agree with everyonthing here except 2. and 8. but I don't think it'd hurt to change them either. If this was reddit, i'd upvote. Instead, here's a small bump from me.

Reply #2 Top

Big bump from me. This is the first time I am looking at those screens on decent size monitor instead of 15" laptop. Apparently, not having proper gaming hardware has more perks than I thought.  :P

Reply #3 Top

I agree on everything black magic says about font sizes and readability. I don't mind the smaller black market box since it saves screen space. I would prefer if the black market text stayed white all the time to keep it legible. The first aesthetic priority for me would be shrinking the size of the left hand panel by 30-50% (including tucking the new advanced building buttons undernearth the resource panel).

I like the new features they built into this interface (stock charts, advanced building access, etc) and overall look. I trust that they will get around to polishing the small details like font sizes and such once they get all the bigger bugs like refresh lag dealt with.

Reply #4 Top

First, the UI is not done. We're shipping in 2016 and nobody at Mohawk considers the UI finished. We are still working on making it better.

The reason we changed to a different system is because the previous system had serious latency even on powerful systems. We could improve that latency by 30% at best, which was still unplayable to a large segment of players. So we changed the UI system. It has been a very tough transition and we're not happy about where we're at, but we're working hard to make the UI great. We want it to be much, much better than it was in all respects before the change. We recognize we're not there yet, but, again, the game's not done. We'll keep working.

1. The progress bar in auctions

I miss this as a visual representation of when an auction is going to end from the old UI (absent in the new UI). I've failed to bid on several auctions in beta 7 because I thought I had more time.

 


End of quote

I don't like progress bars that go backwards. They look weird and don't make any sense. I agree it is less apparent with the new auction, but I don't want to use progress bar to reflect that. I am open to exploring other avenues of showing that information.



2. The font

Quick! Someone tell me if that's $90 or $98. This picture is zoomed in and enlarged. Now imagine having to figure it out quickly next to a bunch of different numbers.


End of quote

We're using a mono-spaced font because it most directly shows the difference between one, two, and three digits numbers which is very important to reflect. This is the mono-spaced font that we're most happy with. I recognize that many people don't like the dot in the zero. We'll keep looking for a mono-spaced font that does what we need without the dot, but until we find it, this is the one that fits our criteria the best.

 


 3. Extra decimal points

 No explanation necessary.

 
End of quote

I agree. I'm not sure why it's rounding like that. If you have repro steps that produce that, please let me know and I'll try to address it.

 


4. HQ upgrade popup

3 issues here.

First the spacing doesn't allow enough room to fit all the numbers in the same line so it throws your eye off visually.

Second having the resource requirements separated by lines (as it was before) and having the header boxed in and colored breaks everything up visually and makes it quicker and easier to read and process all this information. 

Finally when you still need a particular resource to upgrade the font was white to call out what you were lacking. I think that was really important to have and would like to see that back in again. 

 

Reduced 64%
Original 884 x 569
End of quote

We simply haven't had the polish time to fix this yet. I completely agree it's a mess. I know it's important. It will get fixed, but we have a lot to do and it hasn't been at the top of the list yet.
 


5. Black Market


The black market in the new UI is considerably smaller. That makes it harder to read, quickly distinguish what's on the market, and harder to read the prices. The new upgrade button is almost the size of 3 black market items. I miss being able to see the black market. 




Reduced 66%
Original 856 x 333
End of quote

Currently I think the rules governing the black market are unwieldy and inconsistent. Different things come online at different times and there can be any number of things in the black market. Designing an interface that fits all these criteria is difficult and it's in such a state of flux that I don't want to dedicate resources to polishing up something that will likely change a lot in the future. I'm sorry it sucks right now, but I'm not going to fix it until the design is more consistent.


 In the new UI you can fit the entire black market in 1/3 of the new upgrade panel (below is to scale). Which panel do you use more often?

Reduced 72%
Original 790 x 268
End of quote

The primary reason to make the upgrade and claims large and prominent is that if new players miss those components, they won't be able to progress in the game at all. I recognize and agree that expert players will see the space as used poorly and that they would prefer more information put in such a large space, but if the game isn't approachable to new players, we won't get new players and the game won't grow. We want players so that we have a rich and vibrant online community and lots of people playing online. I am willing with this bothering experienced players if it means that the online community is larger.


6. Building popups

This is a zoomed in version and I still can't read how much power is being drawn from this building (because of both the size and the red font). Just about everything on this panel is hard to read during normal gameplay. 








7. Chat screen is hard to read (particularly over top ice)

There used to be a shaded region behind all the text and some shadowing to make it easier to read everything. It's really hard to read the text right now even when it's not ice. I had to squint just to read my own writing earlier when talking with vievi during a game. 

Reduced 91%
Original 626 x 227
End of quote

If you recall previous beta 7s in the past, we had some serious performance issues with the interface. The bad performance was mostly caused by. . . font shadows! So I had to go through and remove all the font shadows in the game so that the game would run at a fast clip. We're working on our own faster solution to font shadows so that it doesn't crash our framerate.

Re-adding font shadows would help a lot in making text readable, but we're trying to keep the performance good. I am very unhappy with how fonts look in the game currently and I don't consider it finished in any way. We will gradually be reintroducing font shadows to help text be more readable, but with Unity it is not without a cost. We have a lot of text on the screen and we must be very judicious even when we use the new solution.

I will try to make the font size larger and more legible where I can. 

8. Font in the engineering lab is way too small to read
Notice how much larger and easier to read the numbers are. Also take note of how hard it is when you get to 4 digits for a resource. Very hard to read.
Reduced 88%
Original 395 x 500
End of quote

Agreed. The engineering lab screen needs a redesign. We have a lot more we want to show and it's not doing what we want yet. 

 

9. Auction font is too small for high bidder and high bid

I mess up auctions because I can't tell if i'm the high bidder or what price the auction is going for because it's really small. Notice how big the font is to the right for comparison on the same screen.
 
Reduced 78%
Original 722 x 208
End of quote

I will try to make the high bidder and high bid larger. Auctions are very much like the black market. We're not happy how design has implemented much of it, so we're unwilling to invest a lot of resources in making it pretty because it will change.

10. HQ summary

I couldn't quite put my foot on what was wrong with the HQ summary until I went back to the old UI. It's basically the same issue I brought up in point #4. Separate some of the sections to make it easier to read so it's not just one massive blob of information that runs together. I look at the right image and it reminds me of people that don't use paragraphs when they type online. Your eyes glaze over and you end up understanding none of it.
 
Reduced 64%
Original 877 x 555
End of quote

I can add horizontal lines as the previous version has done, but I think they look bad. If we do display this information in the future, I'll probably roll a custom tooltip that lays this information out better. I recognize in the short term that the previous version looks better, but the game isn't finished yet. I don't want to ship with that tooltip.

One last issue that I still have is an issue with lag which i reported earlier. I've never had lag with betas 3-6 but beta 7 gives me lag issues when I found, upgrade, build buildings right after an upgrade, and when I build special buildings. I suspect others are still having this issue as well.
End of quote

I've spent a number of weeks optimizing the UI and, from my profiling, those hitches are occurring either because large assets are being loaded into memory (headquarters or buildings that are not currently on the map) or the AI is doing some extremely expensive calculations. I recognize these are problems, but they are beyond the scope of the last few days of beta 7 to fix. We'll try to have a much better experience in beta 8.

I understand that the main focus for beta 7 was making it functional. That being said the combined aesthetic and performance issues above taken in cumulative make playing the game more of a chore for me and sucks all the fun out of it. It's too hard to process most of the information when you have to squint to read things and you can't make quick decisions.

These issues are really simple fixes but hadn't been addressed yet to this point. I hope this helps.
End of quote
 
I'm sorry that it has made the game less fun for you. I have been very concerned about players rejecting the new UI and have been doing the best I can to make the transition as smooth as possible.
 
Most of what you're listing has been small things, but I have a task list multiple times longer than anyone else on the team. If you've noticed, we're a month late with this update and it's because we're trying to get all the functionality that was in the previous version and we ran into significant performance problems that took weeks to resolve. It seems we disagree on how I should have prioritized my time, but I agree with most of the problems you've mentioned and am planning on addressing most of them.
 
The game's not done yet and we're not done working on it. We want it to be a lot better. Please have faith in us that we will work hard to continue to make the game better.
Reply #5 Top

Agreed on all points.

Reply #6 Top

This post is why 95% of my feedback on the new UI is just "make better." That said, the big point I disagree with Deftmunky on is the auction, I really miss the progress bar and thought it worked for easily conveying that information visually. If that's out it really does need something else in its place, possibly something like an analog clock counting down (basically a fancy loading bar) or an audio cue indicating there's little time left (going, going, gone/sold)

 

I also feel like some elements of Mohawk's UI design could benefit from using color a bit more. In particular, this could be an easy way to compact the Engineering Lab interface, simply changing the color on the upgrade button to indicate higher levels of research instead of using the segmented bar.

 

One last thing, it feels clear from this post and several others that come up that we don't know what in particular you guys are looking for feedback on and what you're already looking to change and improve before the community says anything. Having a basic outline of what you're already working toward and what you want from us could help everyone communicate a bit better.

Reply #7 Top

My responses are in comic sans below. My font choice highlights the gravity of this situation and the need to fix these now.





1. The progress bar in auctions





I don't like progress bars that go backwards. They look weird and don't make any sense. I agree it is less apparent with the new auction, but I don't want to use progress bar to reflect that. I am open to exploring other avenues of showing that information.

 

 Blackmagic's Response:

Fair enough. I kinda prefer the progress bar because it's quick to process how much time you have left. Since the auctions are the only stoppage in the game it's free time to rotate your buildings, check the financial situations of other players, grab new claims and scout the market, etc. Because you're doing so much at once you need some sort of visual that you can quickly decipher so someone doesn't end up winning an auction for $5k. Looks like we're on the same page. Doesn't necessarily have to be a progress bar but I like them for the simplicity.


 

5. Black Market



 In the new UI you can fit the entire black market in 1/3 of the new upgrade panel (below is to scale). Which panel do you use more often?




Reduced 72%


Original 790 x 268




The primary reason to make the upgrade and claims large and prominent is that if new players miss those components, they won't be able to progress in the game at all. I recognize and agree that expert players will see the space as used poorly and that they would prefer more information put in such a large space, but if the game isn't approachable to new players, we won't get new players and the game won't grow. We want players so that we have a rich and vibrant online community and lots of people playing online. I am willing with this bothering experienced players if it means that the online community is larger.

Blackmagic's response:

I guess the only point I would like to bring up is that players won't be new players forever. I agree that it's an issue that new players don't hit the upgrade button quickly enough and use the new claims but I would think that's what a tutorial would take care of (which is in the last part of building the game I know). You only hit the upgrade button 5x in the game but you use the black market all the time. We can agree to disagree. =)

If it alleviates the problem I would be happy to make youtube videos on how to use the interface and general beginners strategy for new players if that would help until tutorials are available.


The nice thing about the old black market was that it was easily readable because it was a perfect size. Didn't block too much of the screen and you could quickly glance at it to read it. Just making the black market bigger in the existing UI would help the readability immensely.


 

 

6. Building popups


7. Chat screen is hard to read (particularly over top ice)


8. Font in the engineering lab is way too small to read

9. Auction font is too small for high bidder and high bid

10. HQ summary



If you recall previous beta 7s in the past, we had some serious performance issues with the interface. The bad performance was mostly caused by. . . font shadows! So I had to go through and remove all the font shadows in the game so that the game would run at a fast clip. We're working on our own faster solution to font shadows so that it doesn't crash our framerate.

Re-adding font shadows would help a lot in making text readable, but we're trying to keep the performance good. I am very unhappy with how fonts look in the game currently and I don't consider it finished in any way. We will gradually be reintroducing font shadows to help text be more readable, but with Unity it is not without a cost. We have a lot of text on the screen and we must be very judicious even when we use the new solution.

I will try to make the font size larger and more legible where I can. 

Blackmagic's response:

Thanks! On these items I don't care too much about the design as much as I care about being able to read the game so I can play it. On the 1920x1080 resolution you can't read it at all whereas that was an awesome resolution for the old UI.



Most of what you're listing has been small things, but I have a task list multiple times longer than anyone else on the team. If you've noticed, we're a month late with this update and it's because we're trying to get all the functionality that was in the previous version and we ran into significant performance problems that took weeks to resolve. It seems we disagree on how I should have prioritized my time, but I agree with most of the problems you've mentioned and am planning on addressing most of them.
 
The game's not done yet and we're not done working on it. We want it to be a lot better. Please have faith in us that we will work hard to continue to make the game better.

 

Blackmagic's response:

You guys are doing a great job on the game and I know it's not an easy thing to do. I realize it's in beta but keeping the game readable and playable is also important! I just wanted to give feedback on some of the easy fixes that I felt were holding beta 7 back at the moment and making it challenging to play. It has already come a very long way from when I made my first post on the new UI. 

Keep up the good work! If I didn't care I wouldn't have spent over 3 hours taking comparative snapshots of the game in both UI's and trying to format it to make it legible on this forum!

Reply #8 Top

Quoting Zultar327, reply 6



I also feel like some elements of Mohawk's UI design could benefit from using color a bit more. In particular, this could be an easy way to compact the Engineering Lab interface, simply changing the color on the upgrade button to indicate higher levels of research instead of using the segmented bar.

 
End of Zultar327's quote


I agree that the engineering lab interface could easily be compacted much like the hacker array was. This is a good idea. You don't even necessarily need any words to make the point of a resource being upgraded. Just some colored bars or something.

Reply #9 Top

Quoting DeftMunky, reply 4
The primary reason to make the upgrade and claims large and prominent is that if new players miss those components, they won't be able to progress in the game at all. I recognize and agree that expert players will see the space as used poorly and that they would prefer more information put in such a large space, but if the game isn't approachable to new players, we won't get new players and the game won't grow. We want players so that we have a rich and vibrant online community and lots of people playing online. I am willing with this bothering experienced players if it means that the online community is larger.
End of DeftMunky's quote

I am not sure that ginormous upgrade button is what will make a new player hooked up on the game. We dealt pretty well with much smaller button of the previous UI. Besides, black market, whether you like it or not, is just as much important (and sometimes actually more important) than upgrading. There should be balance between clarity and efficiency. And frankly... isn't it the job for tutorial to teach new players how to use the interface?

 

On an unrelated (um.. ish) note, I just want to say something, hopefully, on behalf of many active players. Despite our constant whining and ranting, we all recognize the effort you as a team and you personally put into making this game even more awesome than it currently is. You've proven worthy of my faith many times. Many times new builds caused me think the team was heading in the wrong direction and things would only go south from here. Which turned out to be an unnecessary pessimism, since few builds later you not only fixed the issues I had, but improved the overall experience more than I could ask for. Personally, I realize the game is in early access and it's a collaborative effort to perfect it. And that's fine by me. So forgive us for getting inpatient. We only rant cuz we care.  :grin:

Reply #10 Top

I disagree with 1 2 5 8 and 9.
In short:

* I don't think the backwards progressbar is of much use
* I prefer the dot in the 0 and it does not look like an 8 to me 
* I prefer the black market ui to be smaller like that and take less screen space away, there's an impossible to overhear soundbite with THE BLACK MARKET IS ONLINE already, I think the new upgrade HQ button is very important for newcomers, as well as the claim tile button
* I have no problems reading the font in the engineering lab
* The names in the auction window are color-coded, so I have absolutely no problem determining who currently bid highest. 

Big thanks to DeftMunky for taking the time to elaborate on the issues Mohawk is facing here, I found it very insightful.

Reply #12 Top

Quoting InSyncOTC, reply 9

On an unrelated (um.. ish) note, I just want to say something, hopefully, on behalf of many active players. Despite our constant whining and ranting, we all recognize the effort you as a team and you personally put into making this game even more awesome than it currently is. You've proven worthy of my faith many times. Many times new builds caused me think the team was heading in the wrong direction and things would only go south from here. Which turned out to be an unnecessary pessimism, since few builds later you not only fixed the issues I had, but improved the overall experience more than I could ask for. Personally, I realize the game is in early access and it's a collaborative effort to perfect it. And that's fine by me. So forgive us for getting inpatient. We only rant cuz we care.  :grin:

End of InSyncOTC's quote

Thank you very much, InSyncOTC. This is a fantastic community and you guys are amazing. This build wouldn't have gone half as well without all you guys being stickler on things not being right. (And I'm sure that things still aren't completely right, but let me know I will fix them as I get to them.)

I'm delighted that you all are passionate about the game and I understand how that goes. I'm very much "why are they doing this?!?" with my favorite game companies.  I wanted to shed a little light on why things are the way they are so you understand why changes were made and make it easier to cope with. I completely understand the "this used to look good and work well, but now it sucks" concern and, trust me, nobody feels it more acutely than us.

Thank you for the amazing support for our game and our company and we'll keep working hard to make Offworld as good as we can.

-Scott-

Reply #13 Top

I love the way the team engages the community and really listens (although you're not implementing my every suggestion  :(  ). The new UI is definitely a big improvement latency wise. The new little things like the running resource graphs and color coded prices are very handy for the average player (ie. me and most others) and I actually have confidence that you'll also have ELO based matchmaking for 1v1 and FFAs.

I'm a little worried that the game won't be popular on release because economy RTS is a new kind of game. based on the OTC steam chart history I'm a little concerned that the game won't be more popular when released. I'm very confident that the player base it does attract is generally very intelligent and fun to play with.

Reply #14 Top

Most of a game's sales are determined by marketing and brand, not by the quality of the game. Since there has been zero marketing so far, the lack of sales is hardly an issue. On the other hand, if there was no marketing even at release time, then there would be cause for worry...

Reply #15 Top

Quoting Zultar327, reply 6

One last thing, it feels clear from this post and several others that come up that we don't know what in particular you guys are looking for feedback on and what you're already looking to change and improve before the community says anything. Having a basic outline of what you're already working toward and what you want from us could help everyone communicate a bit better.
End of Zultar327's quote

We have not communicated with the community well about the goals for each build. For beta 7, it was "get the main interface fully functional. Not finished, but completely functional". I *think* we got it functional, but we're certainly not happy with it.

Our goals for beta 8 are to move the campaign screen to use the new interface system and, with any additional time, fix and improve the in-game interface. I hope to get most of the problems with the in-game interface fixed by the next patch, but there will be a number of things that won't be finished.

-Scott-

Reply #16 Top

Thanks for the reply Scott. Would love something like a pinned post outlining short term goals like this.