AI Hyper aggressive towards human player

I'm glad that improvements are coming to the AI. But I've not seen anything mentioned about the AI declaring war. To me this is the one thing spoiling an excellent game. 

1) It seems to me that an AI faction rarely goes to war with another AI faction without the human getting involved, paying one faction to go to war with another. The AI will prefer war with a human even if there are weaker AI factions closer to them.

2) The AI will declare war on the human if they are out of range.

3) The AI will ask for too much for a peace if you don't have a higher military power. They won't give you much if you have crushed them, certainly not on parity.

4) 2 and 3 means that an AI faction will declare war on you forever unless you give them everything you have in a peace deal causing other factions to declare war on you more easily as you remain at war even though neither side can fight each other.

5) The AI builds too many small worthless ships early. This builds their military power while sacrificing their tech. 

6) Tech doesn't seem to be factored into military power or isn't factored high enough. An example of 5 and 6 from my last game was me destroying around 100 AI ships using only 12 of my own (4 groups of 3). Unless the AI's plan was to bore me to death this isn't an effective strategy for them.

There's probably more factors I have forgotten/not thought of. I feel these are the main ones. From my limited technical know how they don't seem like they would be too hard to fix. There could also be a little nerfing of the negative opinion modifiers if necessary. But since most of those problems are interrelated fixing one or two could change the AI behaviour significantly.

Or maybe I'm alone in having a problem with this? Either way let me know.

16,611 views 25 replies
Reply #1 Top

This is the single biggest issue I have with the game (although not the only one).

To me the nonsensical nature of the AI's approach to war is just shoddy coding, using hyper-aggression to mask an otherwise unimpressive AI.  It simply makes no sense.  Having the AI behave irrationally is not the same as having a difficult or clever AI.  Think about it.     What sort of brain-dead leader would declare war when there is no benefit to do so?  The AI will declare war long before it has the fleet to reach you, before it even has the tech to launch planetary invasions.  

The Japanese announced their intention to go to war with the USA by attacking Pearl Harbor and following it up with a quick invasion of multiple of the pacific islands.  When they reasonably thought they had both a benefit in war and the means to execute it, not just as soon as they met an American.

Next is the difficultly level.  The AI being in constant war with the human might be ok for the highest difficulty levels, but this irrational behavior occurs even at easy.  Making the game more difficult to play is not a good way to loop in more players.

 
Reply #2 Top

I'm having issues with the Snathi. Boy, they get upset really-really easy. And declare war fairly soon. Too soon to really do anything with it.

I'm hoping this will be sorted with 1.5, as that's where diplomacy is going to get a purdy makeover, according to frogboy. I don't mind being threatened by the AI early - ie "we'll undermine you/stop your freighters/harass you/slander your name throughout the galaxy!Look at those disgusting photos of you and that alien!" material, but the war declaration "just because we can" is getting a bit old.


 

Reply #3 Top

In my recent game I found the AI to be indeed more aggressive:

had the Drengin attack the Snathi first and take over a planet near my borders. Then the Drengin attacked me and took two of my planets. I managed, sort of, to reclaim my planets after a devastating war. I suppose this weakened the Drengin a little bit, because a custom faction I made, made an attack on both the Drengin and the Snathi and took over all their planet. I was a bit shocked I suppose as this was the first time something like this happened in my games. It was a pleasant shock as it means the AI is improving (this was at the same difficulty I usually play at).

 

Reply #4 Top

In my last game, two of my Bene allies were at war for over 300 turns, couldn't stop them, while the Drengin and the Odair went war/peace at least 5 times.

 

Also, ditto for the AI declaring war while completely out of range.  Next they declare war without invasion tech, and no hope of wiping out my starbases.

 

Also, my allies don't go to war when I do, with a military alliance?... also, we can trade tech with " trade tech disabled".

 

"show oversize ships" doesn't work either.

 

*sigh*

 

 

Reply #5 Top

In my last game, the AI was impressively mellow. I actually casually reached and alliance victory without even trying. Everyone was suddenly close to me. What really bothers me is how in the world does the faction rating even work? It seems like it relies entirely on military power, which is pretty stupid to me.

 

Sure, the Altarians have a power level of over 90000, but all of their ships are pretty crappy, they have a debt of over -90000, and average rating for everything else, like social manufacturing, research, etc. And yet they have the number one spot in power.

Reply #6 Top

How can they have such a massive debt and then continue building and researching??

Reply #7 Top

Quoting Achronous, reply 6

How can they have such a massive debt and then continue building and researching??
End of Achronous's quote

Not sure on this, but i do not think they can.  Debt was prob the result of an ideology pick that gives expensive ships/planet (bad implementation imo), at which point the were shut down

Reply #8 Top

Well, the reason I'm asking is because in my game they were heavily in debt too, but continued to trounce everybody and making more ships...

 

EDIT: typos

Reply #9 Top

Having no money only affects the ability to research and build. Ships can still be moved and attack other ships.

Reply #10 Top

This problem should be reduced a bit by the diplo rework. AI hyper-aggression is mostly down to the very short distance between love and hate in GC3, and the extremely large impact of modifiers in relation to that distance.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting Nilfiry, reply 9

Having no money only affects the ability to research and build. Ships can still be moved and attack other ships.
End of Nilfiry's quote

Also they could have accumulated a large role forward of mfg points which can let you continue to build ships until used up

Reply #12 Top

Quoting a0152570, reply 11


Quoting Nilfiry,

Having no money only affects the ability to research and build. Ships can still be moved and attack other ships.



Also they could have accumulated a large role forward of mfg points which can let you continue to build ships until used up

End of a0152570's quote

 

And they can have buildings which produce manufacturing itself rather than a % increase.Any flat bonuses to manufactturing, military manufacturing, social manu, research or econ are not effected by bankruptcy, which is pretty much why we can't build an economy based on attaching resource generation directly to buildings.

Reply #13 Top

They were definitely producing lots of medium and large ships...

Reply #14 Top
For the record I've played hundreds of hours and I haven't observed the problems cited by the OP, except only that the dreaded Dread Lords always attack.
Reply #15 Top

Can confirm the aggressive AI. Played one game on 1.4 and the Drengin and a custom race declared war on me around turn 100. Problem was they are nowhere near to me. We are now blazing over turn 200 but these two aggressors  are still way out of reach for any kind of ship to reach. They did not bother or could not research and build ships that can reach me, nor offer peace. Interestingly they are only in war with me ignoring all the other 30+ races :)

 

Really glad the AI gets an update next. It needs to be more aware of its surroundings and follow a victory goal working against competition even if it is another AI. It is very easy in the current state to get along with everyone except for the one or two warmongers. The AI also needs to be able to for alliances with another AI - Have never seen such a thing in any of the GC3 games I played yet. There are also several type of alliances but did not notice yet what the point of them is though they get the imagination running like wild - so many possibilities. Wish we could work in a meaningful alliance with other AIs fighting against an opposing alliance while some CIVs manage to stay relatively neutral

 

Another thing I have noticed is the exploitation of the AI with Exploration Treaties for money, resources or tech. The more AI are present on the map, the easier the game actually gets. In some of the turns the player can milk all the money off of AIs that are relatively friendly earning tens of thousands of credits just for sharing exploration data for a short period

 

Reply #16 Top

I have a theory that this is tied to difficulty level.  I think the AIs get a bonus to diplomacy at higher difficulty levels which makes them generally all friendly to each other.  

I threw a godlike AI on a custom race that was meant to be as war like and unlikeable personality wise as possible (aggressive, cruel, expansionist, etc) into my last game and when I tried to get other races to go to war with it they all had an opinion that was at or near the +10 max (as seen on the pop up menu for the declare war offer).

Reply #17 Top

It is not tied to difficulty. I play on godlike all the time, and the AI are more likely to declare war on each other than declare war on me. It has to do with your ranking. If you are much too weaker than everyone else, the ones with ideology opposite to yours will most likely declare war on you, unless your diplomacy stat is really high.

Reply #18 Top

Quoting Nilfiry, reply 17

It is not tied to difficulty. I play on godlike all the time, and the AI are more likely to declare war on each other than declare war on me. It has to do with your ranking. If you are much too weaker than everyone else, the ones with ideology opposite to yours will most likely declare war on you, unless your diplomacy stat is really high.
End of Nilfiry's quote

 

Absolutely correct.  I have played all difficulties from normal up, higher diff typically you behind in score which makes it look more like you are Ripe for conquest; but that's the only way it is tied to diff.

Reply #19 Top

You may be right, but just so I'm clear it was the only godlike.  I had about 30 or so other genius AIs in that game and no matter what their personality or ideology was they all liked the godlike AI.  I guess it could just be that the godlike AI was way ahead in diplomacy tech and had used its size to build lots of diplomacy buildings.

 

I tried to find the bonuses the AI gets in the xml files but had no luck.

Reply #20 Top

Quoting Yeller123, reply 19

You may be right, but just so I'm clear it was the only godlike.  I had about 30 or so other genius AIs in that game and no matter what their personality or ideology was they all liked the godlike AI.  I guess it could just be that the godlike AI was way ahead in diplomacy tech and had used its size to build lots of diplomacy buildings.

 

I tried to find the bonuses the AI gets in the xml files but had no luck.
End of Yeller123's quote

 

Well of course. The AI Is designed like your ordinary real world faction: suck up to those stronger while trampling on those weaker. I have no doubt that your godlike faction was WAAAY ahead of everyone else in just about everything.

Reply #21 Top

My games are all Normal as that is the level the AI does not get any bonuses in either direction as per my understanding.

 

Wouldn't exactly say that the AIs are overly friendly with each other, in my experience they are overly hostile OR friendly with the player. They either declare war on the player without any chance of ever reaching one of its planets not to mention occupy it, or they are so charmed be it due to trade, diplomacy bonus, ideology or other that they will never declare war.

 

The main problem I saw that each AI is evaluating only according to the parameters we see on the summary which is good as that makes it transparent but bad as there are far too few of it (take TW Attila as a good example of how many different parameters can be used here to evaluate there stance towards each other and the player). Some of the AI "personalities" could even get traits like trustworthy or despicable backstabber to occasionally overwrite these parameters based on math (6 points=I like you). Now that I think of it the later is kinda the essence of personality :)

 

In line with the above, the AI can dislike the player as much as it likes but declaring war on it just based on the attitude is probably not wise - There is a good chance this is not the case though as there are always a few other races that dislike my VIC strongly but they do not declare war.

Reply #22 Top

Quoting Lord_of_Void, reply 21


Wouldn't exactly say that the AIs are overly friendly with each other, in my experience they are overly hostile OR friendly with the player. They either declare war on the player without any chance of ever reaching one of its planets not to mention occupy it, or they are so charmed be it due to trade, diplomacy bonus, ideology or other that they will never declare war.

End of Lord_of_Void's quote

 

The next patch is the diplomacy one so hopefully this gets fix, IMO the best way to do it would be to lower the resting value of an AIs opinion towards you if you do nothing and give the player more active ways to to increase it, preferably ones that require effort and/or have a cost.

 

Currently we have trade which after a one time set up gives an on going bonus, treaties which cost nothing to maintain and don't really have consequences, and saying yes when the AI asks for a gift or asks you to declare war.

 

Some new ones that I'd like to see are mutual defence packs/alliances where you must go to war if your partner is attacked, a mutual agreement to go to war with a third party, a positive modifier tied to the amount of damage you do to a races enemies, the option to liberate planets that an AI has lost (like in civ) and the option to give gifts without being asked.

 

A more ambitious fix would be to added more scales, so instead of just likes/dislikes we get supports/opposes, trusts/distrusts and fears/unconcerned?(can't think of a good opposite end of the scale).

 

So even if a race supports your current actions (this one would be most like the current likes/dislikes scale) they might go to war or join an alliance against you if they fear you or don't trust you enough.  With multiple scales it should be much harder to passively maintain good relations.

 

Edit: It would probably also help if distant races tended towards neutral

Reply #23 Top

I'm finding the same thing with v1.4. I started a new game last night with all AI's on normal. When I finally met my 1st AI, the Dregan, they were about at my level but slightly above. 60 turns later, they had twice as many worlds, twice as many starbases, 3x's the ships and now had a higher tech level. Even though I had only met a scout, they immediately declared war. I then met the Alterains and Iconia's which also had 2 to 3x's everything I had.

I'm not a new player to Civ. I've owned every game up to this one and have over 300 hours in this game. While I've lost a couple of games, I've always been in the top of the list throughout the game even playing on high levels. There is definitely something going on. 

For example, when I first met the Iconian's they didn't have medium hull tech. I didn't trade it to them (my game has tech trading off), yet 25 turns later they not only had the technology but built 10 ships while I had the tech and had only built 4. Not only did they build 10 medium hull ships during the time I was able to build 4, they also had about 10 other ships built.

BTW, since I was considered the weak military member, all other AI's immediately declared war on me. I'm starting a new game and I'm going to watch the other Civ's using the FOW command on, just to see how they are expanding, but I strongly believe something is amiss, my skills haven't eroded that much from the last time I won a few months ago.

 

 

 

Reply #24 Top

I have nothing against crazy warmonger AI but even Montezuma in Civilization IV , the craziest of them all had more pragmatism than the average GalCiv III villain.  I mean, he would play nice guy until he finally DOW on you usually meant he had 6 galleons full of musketman about 2 turns away from your capital.

Now galciv III, I got DOW by the krynn as soon as I met one of their scout in early game.  But they are so far away that they have not attacked me in about 200 turns. Stardock, you need to make the AI evil and sneaky like Montezuma :p

 

 

Reply #25 Top

Yeah I have seen this behavior as well. Even on beginner difficulty the warlike races will send wave after wave of huge stacks of ships at me. Never seen anything like it in GalCiv2. Seems broken.