That's true, but it's far easier for the player to change their settings in map size and type than it is for someone with no knowledge to mod something even so basic as a xml.

It would be better for them to just add a "Star Count" slider with actual numbers instead of hard coded size limits and just let the player pick the star count right from galaxy creation/generation right at the start.

Even though it's not "Hard Coded" and is easily changeable by changing a xml, your average player doesn't mod. They look for mods to download and even take ones they don't like because it has one setting or one option they like even if it changes elements they don't want changed. Most people's first experience with any kind of modding or even xml changing usually comes from people trying to cheat and get bonuses or to make "Trainer Mods" for the lazy. They aren't even interested in modding in any form beyond that.

Agreed we can't cater to every type of player out there, but we shouldn't gimp things normal players can't fix to their liking without having to resort to learning how to mod in a game based around the choices and setting the players pick. In a Grand Strategy game players looking for a smaller game or faster experience are always going to be in the group that plays on the smaller maps for the most part anyway. Being that it is a grand 4x game however those of us who stick around for the long haul are those of us looking for the larger experience.

We shouldn't always fall back on the "modding is the answer" in a game that's designed just as much around player choice and customization just as much as it is around the gameplay mechanics. The average player doesn't know how to mod anyway which is why we always see so many basic questions of how to change things on the forums.

The other consideration here is the Ideology system.  It is heavily dependant on planet colonization.  I already had worries about really playing with the tables with the current setup, but as long as there were a good number of planets to colonize, it was still working before one had to go to the improvement building route.  If there are "only" 200+ planets on an I/A/A/A game, I can only imagine what it is like on smaller maps (think I'm gonna test that actually).  Unless more vectors of Ideology comes into the game, this is going to force ideology building (and early) as opposed to making it something of a choice.  

Well, I suppose the choice is: Do I even bother pursuing Ideology.  Which is a valid argument in the "is/is not" a choice area.  But, IMO, ideology was already difficult to earn.  This just adds to the difficulty.  

Which isn't inherently bad.  But it is a factor here. 

Alright.  Time for more empirical testing.

All settings Abundant/Abundant/Abundant/Rare (Stars, Planets, Habitable, Extreme) on a Scattered Map with 7 opponents. 

NOTE:  FOLLOWING ANALYSIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE PLANETS HELD BY MINOR RACES.  OOPS. SO TREAT AS A ROUGH GUIDELINE BUT STILL MORE OR LESS ACCURATE  - SEE REPLY #48 FOR UPDATED ANALYSIS

Tiny: 25-29 total colonizable planets (two tests) 

Small: 40-45 total colonizable planets (two tests)

Medium: 78-87 total colonizable planets (three tests)

Large: 105-127 total colonizable planets (two tests)

Huge: 134-157 total colonizable planets (two tests)

Gigantic: 174-177 total colonizable planets (two tests)

Immense: 215 total colonizable planets (two tests)

Excessive: 215 total colonizable planets (two tests)

Insane: 215 total colonizable planets (two tests)

The main problem here is the map size grows much faster than the number of planets.  It seems like it is at around Gigantic when the map size starts to outstrip the number of planets.  Just by a look at the minimap, at least.  And it flat out stops growing at Immense.

That actually sounds like a bug to me.  

Just by glancing things seem "reasonable" up to either Large or Huge.  Depending on preference.  But once it hits Huge, the problems start.  Just from eyeballing it at least.

I checked the <Base> values in MapSizeDef, and they are different (368, 500, 600), so that's not it.  And I have a brand new fresh install and patch since I redownloaded the game yesterday, so that shouldn't be it either.

Looking at MapSetupDef I really can't see much different from now and before, so I don't think that's it, either.  Is odd though.  Most odd.

I don't necessarily like this new change either, though actually it did kind of make tight clusters more like islands as I believe was originally intended. It also made range more important and changed the nature of the game.

 

I actually like the idea puff having the base number set on a slider as it has a huge affect on how the game plays out.

 

I imagine once steam workshop integration is online that there while be hundreds off easy to download mods in this area.

 

Still I agree good to allow tweaking in game.

I`ve noticed a couple of buggy issues also, but this is the opt-in patch, it`s not the Official patch. We have to assume that by the time 1.02 proper is out these things will be better. They are no doubt working on it right now, so give them a little slack.

Even though it looks like it's bugged to some degree, I think a base number of usable planets generated v map hex count ratio should prove interesting.

Let's do that and see what we get.

NOTE:  FOLLOWING ANALYSIS DOES NOT INCLUDE THE PLANETS HELD BY MINOR RACES.  OOPS. SO TREAT AS A ROUGH GUIDELINE BUT STILL MORE OR LESS ACCURATE - SEE REPLY #48 FOR UPDATED ANALYSIS

Tiny: 2791 tiles 27 colonizable  planets generated (mid point)
Small: 4921 tiles 43 colonizable planets generated (mid point, rounded up)
Medium: 10981 tiles 83 colonizable planets generated (mid point, rounded up)
Large: 24571 tiles 116 colonizable planets generated (mid point)
Huge: 51091 tiles 146 colonizable planets generated (midpoint, rounded up)
Gigantic: 97741 tiles 176 colonizable planets generated (midpoint, rounded up)
Immense: 173521 tiles 215 colonizable planets generated.

Ratios:
Tiny: .96%
Small: .87%
Medium: .76%
Large: .47%
Huge: .29%
Gigantic: .18%
Immense: .12%

So once the map size hits Large, it falls off a cliff, with it accelerating as the map size increases.

Awww, crap. I forgot to include the number of minors in my assessments on colonizable worlds (I didn't include them in my counts, like at all).  Knew I forgot something.  Hmm, though if your seeing the same thing that really doesn't matter THAT much, I suppose.

Guess I should try to rework my tables slightly, though the overall point still is valid.

 

Yeah, I forgot to get rid of them and other major races (of which I have 20), so I'm guessing there's around 240 being created. Might be worth checking if Habitable Planets is having any effect on any other map sizes - if it is, then we may be able to modfix this out.

 

I`m surprise it was reduced that much I`d reduce the base before to get less on the map but reducing it over a 1000 seem to be a lot!.

I have a Insane map I`ve been playing I`m on turn 170+ ATM I`ll have to play with the new setting to see how it play now.

It appears to just be limited to Insane - smaller maps (even Gigantic) have a variation. But around 200 appears to be some kind of hard limit for habitables - once a setting hits 200+X, it stops increasing no matter how much higher the setting is.

 

This means you move from tiny, where the most abundant setting is around 500% the lowest, to Gigantic where it's 200%, to Insane, where they're equal. I suspect they were trying to introduce a hard cap of 2500 and missed a zero.

I think pregenerated star systems for the factions is coming in somewhere.  I just did a test on Immense with only the Terrans and Drengin.

This time 204 planets were generated.

So, 1 for Earth, 1 for Mars, 1 Drengin, 1 for Kona, and 200 for everthing else.

Sounds like a cap problem indeed.

Also sounds like this is time to start sending in tickets to Stardock now that we might have narrowed the problem down.