[1.01] Emigration Center only gives 10% boost to Influence - Should it be 100%?

from GalCiv3 Forums

Not sure if this a bug or Working as Intended, but I thought I would comment.  Near the end of one of the cultural branches, there is a tech called "Stellar Immigration" (at least for the Terrans, other races might call it something different).  One of the things it unlocks is a Colony Only improvement that gives a 10% bonus to influence the colony generates and a +2 adjacency Influence bonus to all tiles around it.  Should this really be 10% though?  I get the +2 is kinda good, since all of the other Influence Improvements leading up to it are all +1.  But the building immediately before this one is the Outreach Center which boosts Influence 50% and is +1 adjacency and can be built as many times as one wants.  In fact, the lowest level Influence building is 25%/+1.

Unlike some of the other adjacency based improvements, this one can never be upgraded to something better.  So, as I said, is this a bug, or, WaI?

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Reply #1 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I played since Alpha and influence was majorly broken up until about three weeks ago. Even then, I was able to make significant progress with cultural victory but nothing insane. It's not so much the 10% but if you compound that with a cultural space station then your output can be strong enough with your homeworld to take over a small map. It wasn't difficult a month ago and still not impossible two weeks ago.

Besides you're right when you say that +2 is strong because it is strong.

It's all about the stacking though and that 10% will seem crazy.

Reply #2 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Natasin, reply 1

I played since Alpha and influence was majorly broken up until about three weeks ago. Even then, I was able to make significant progress with cultural victory but nothing insane. It's not so much the 10% but if you compound that with a cultural space station then your output can be strong enough with your homeworld to take over a small map. It wasn't difficult a month ago and still not impossible two weeks ago.

Besides you're right when you say that +2 is strong because it is strong.

It's all about the stacking though and that 10% will seem crazy.
End of Natasin's quote

Yeah, but a 50%/+1 building would be better in the center though, won't it?  Suppose someone goes crazy and puts a 10%/+2 in the center of a ring and puts a bunch of 50%/+1's around it.  Isn't it still better to put a 50%/+1 at the center of such a ring than a 10%/+2?  The total amount of extra percentage boost from the adjacency that the Emigration Center gives over the Outreach Center is, what, 30% (5% times 6 for each of the extra +1's)?  That's still doesn't cover the 50% base of what you could put in there (10% + 30% = 40%).  And that's if you max out the adjacency as much as one can.

Sure, if the Outreach Center didn't have the adjacency bonus, it'd be worth it.  But unless I am doing the math very very wrong (and I could be), it seems to me that there is no reason to ever build it.  A 50%/+1 should always be superior, no?

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Now the two buildings that come after it (the One per Empire and One Per Galaxy) are worth it because they grant a 10% boost to all planets and everything you own respectively.  Plus they have a +3 adjacency bonus instead of a +2 which does overtake a 50%/+1 if you build enough around them.

Dunno.  What am I missing here?

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Reply #3 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting BuckGodot, reply 2

But unless I am doing the math very very wrong (and I could be), it seems to me that there is no reason to ever build it. A 50%/+1 should always be superior, no?
End of BuckGodot's quote

Your math is fine. Both the Outreach Center and the Emigration Center offer the same bonus per level, so the only way that the Emigration Center can catch up with the Outreach Center is if it can produce enough bonus levels on adjacent structures to make up for the difference in the base bonus each offers; in this case, since the standard influence structure level bonus is +0.05 to the influence multiplier per level and the Emigration Center needs to make up a difference of 0.4 to the influence multiplier off the basic structure, you need the Emigration Center to generate 8 more levels than the Outreach Center does in order for it to simply match the Outreach Center. As this is not possible on a hex grid while the Emigration Center offers +2 levels to each adjacent improvement and the Outreach Center offers +1 level to each adjacent improvement, the Emigration Center is strictly worse, unless you have an influence improvement with a nonstandard level bonus that you'd really like to boost up, and I can't think of such a structure off the top of my head. Even if there were such a structure, it'd most likely be one-per-player or one-per-galaxy.

I'd say the Emigration Center is a trap; to a lesser extent, this also applies to the other one-per-planet structures which are intended to be useful mostly by way of the levels they provide to adjacent improvements, but at least most of those are actually capable of matching and, in relatively ideal circumstances, exceeding the basic structures of their type.

Reply #4 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting joeball123, reply 3
the Emigration Center is strictly worse, unless you have an influence improvement with a nonstandard level bonus that you'd really like to boost up, and I can't think of such a structure off the top of my head. Even if there were such a structure, it'd most likely be one-per-player or one-per-galaxy.
End of joeball123's quote

I was thinking maybe the Missionary Center, but people build that for the BPs with the influence being a nice bonus.  But even then, the bonus is still to Influence, so it would still make sense to build a 50%/+1 next to it.

What if the Emigration Center was 50%/+2?  That wouldn't make it OPed versus the Outreach Center, I would think.  It'd cost more to build, yes.  But the level bonus should be worth it.

Or 25%/+3?  Then one has a choice to make on building or not.  That +3 bonus puts it line with the Player Only and Map Only buildings that come in later and the 25% local boost still might make it worth while in some cases over the 50%/+1. 

Reply #5 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I have to agree.  The emigration center doesn't fit the pattern of of the other one per planet buildings.  It feels more like a typo than a design decision.  I don't see anything about influence that should make it different than how research, wealth, and manufacturing work.  My trial and error work (instead of math) shows me that an emigration center has to touch four cultural centers before it starts paying off in bonuses.  That is too rare a circumstance.