My experience with the Founder System

from GalCiv3 Forums

So as GalCiv 3 is about to go gold, I ponder my experience with the Early Access system that Stardock put together.

 

For reference, I played all the way through Alpha and for the beginning of Beta. Took a long hiatus, than came back early Beta 5, and then have been heavily playing (and heavily posting!) since that time.

Gal Civ 2 for me was a good game, it was never my favorite mechanically, but I appreciated how good the AI was and I'm a big fan of Stardock. So when I heard about the early access program I immediately took a look.

Candidly, I did get a bit of "sticker shock" when I looked at the price tag. I do not buy games often, and I'm a single guy in my early 30s (aka disposal cash), so the money itself wasn't the problem. However, there was a feeling of "wait I have to pay you to test your game?".

 

So why did I do it? I can say that the deal itself did look pretty good once I wrapped in all of the DLCs I would eventually get. But honestly that was not it at all. In a single word:

Prestige

 

I get to name a star? Cool. I get access to my own forum that only founders get access to? Awesome. I get unique documents and things right from the developers? Sign me up!

Basically, I didn't just get early access to the game, I got secret access. I could tell my friends that I was alpha testing a game and was getting to put feedback right in front of the developers (to a point, you get the idea). This is ultimately why you got my time and my money.

 

So did I get what I wanted? For the most part.

The alpha was great, even if there was no AI. It was just us elite founders and devs. Back and forth discussions, trying to decide the course the game would take. Documents kept getting added to the founder's area. It was a fun time.

The alpha was over in a blink it seems like, and then beta started. And those upstart beta testers came rolling in:) The founders forum stopped being the place to go. Documents were now seldomly added to the founders area. The founders became...just one of the testers.

 

This is where I parted ways for a while, took a long hiatus from the beta. When I came back, the founders vault still haven't seen much action, but the game was a lot more fun to play, and so the game itself kept me going, until now...just days away from release.

So based on my experience, here are a few suggestions when you consider early access going forward.

 

1) Finding a way to blunt the sticker shock. Now on the one hand, you may have intended the sticker to be a type of a "loyalty test", you wanted to ensure you received some very loyal fans. If you got what you wanted then "if it ain't broke don't fix it". However, if attendance wasn't what you had wanted, I recommend some ways to space out the cost. Everything is micro-transactional nowadays, is where a way to instill that in a way that isn't too cumbersome? Again, the sticker actually made me consider not doing it...and I am one of the least money conscious demographics you are catering to.

2) The founders vault was a wonderful idea, but it lost momentum. Honestly for me, the greatest treasure was Brad's design documents. Sure, I loved the mp3s and the graphics, but those documents were great. Why? Again, it was the prestige. I got to be a fly on the wall of the development process, I got to see what devs where thinking.

I would have loved to see those more regularly, even if they were hurried emails or half brained memos. That was the part that made you feel  "cool to be in the club".

3) Once in a while, put a spotlight on your founders. The best example of this was Brad's recent thread about "bugaboos from the founders".

It was a way of saying "founders, I want your feedback, your opinion. You get my focused attention on a particular subject".

I don't need that all the time, you obviously don't want to isolate the rest of your base. But once in a while, it gives the founders a reminder that they are "special", that they are a little closer to the inner circle than the rest. It may sound very silly from some people...but for some of us, that is what we paid for.

 

So ultimately I was pleased with my experience, and I would consider doing it again. I do think the program can be improved (my notes above) but ultimately I think the concept panned out, and I will look at early access programs for future work from Stardock.

Good luck on the 14th!

--Stalker0

938 views 17 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Thanks for the feedback!  I will respond later after some sleep. ;)

Reply #2 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Having been a beta tester for an earlier GC, Elemental, and Fallen Enchantress, I have to agree with everything Stalker0 said.  My experience with GC and FE was better than that with Elemental, but this has been the best yet.  Getting the chance to be in on the development of a game that people around the world will enjoy, and contribute in some small way to that development, is priceless.  Thank you, Brad, Paul, Derek, and Stardock.

Ashes of the Singularity II
Reply #3 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I had a very similar experience to OP and agree with most of his feedback. I was a little more active in the beta stages, especially in the short time after each patch was first released. I have found the experience of watching this game develop very interesting. I also liked the ability to "invest" in GCIII by paying a larger sum up front which I am confident will pay off as the DLC and expansions pile up.

 

P.S. I've seen some badges for the new RTSs, but none were every made for OWTC or Sorcerer King. It's not a big deal, but I think the founders of those games would appreciate it.

Reply #4 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

For myself I became a founder because I loved gc2 and all it's  expansions and had faith in stardock that if anything did go wrong, (don't  shoot me Frogboy) as with elemental, that stardock would make  it right in the end.

 

Since I also knew I would want all the dlc and expansions the price seemed like a bargin to me. All the other founders stuff was just icing on the cake.

 

Generally though I've had less time to play during alpha and beta than I would like I've  loved the experience and look forward to many years of fun from gc3 and modding gc3.

 

I do remember stardock at the time said the price was in large part because they wanted die hard gc fans in the alpha.

Reply #5 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I ordered was ahead of time and bought the special edition of Elemental, came with a nice pewter dragon.  Game was a flop, but I got this little dragon =)

Then Fallen Enchantress came along as a rebuild from Elemental, and all was right with the world.  I alpha and beta tested the crap out of it, used tons of mods, lots of experimentation, had a great time.

Galciv3 became available and I ponied up my $100 without a qualm.  I'll admit I did not play any alpha, started up around beta 3 for testing and feedback.  What I liked the most about the founder program is the promised full access to all current and future development around GC3.  I played the crap out of GC2 and I know I'll do the same with GC3.  My only real qualms are around the overall quality of the release.  I do software QA for a living and I know all about having to balance fixing current stuff vs getting the new stuff working, but there are a lot of small bugs that are still around.  I have to believe your QA folks notice these things and there just isn't time to act on them.

Reply #6 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I had to figure out whether to do Founder or Beta.  Chose Beta because of lack of money.   Talked myself into it, found the money, and upgraded to Founder.  Have loved it ever since.  I didn't get to use my chosen star name, and the founder's vault was underwhelming, but the rest has been a fun and wild trip.  Stardock provides a unique insight and accessibility that shows a deeply committed customer focus.  I still can't believe Brad letting people watch over his shoulder as he coded AI.  I have never heard of anything close to that.

I probably wouldn't do it again.  For one thing, GalCiv is pretty unique in my opinion.  For another, I have done more than enough regression testing in my professional life.  :)   But, if I am only going to do this once, I am glad it was with this team and this community.  It was and still is a blast and a half.  Also, I take the long view; the long strange trip continues....

Reply #7 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I know it was a lot of money up front but it's a saving in the long run on dlc and expansions. 

Reply #8 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting econundrum1, reply 7

I know it was a lot of money up front but it's a saving in the long run on dlc and expansions. 
End of econundrum1's quote

 

I paid a whopping $22.50 back in November when they had the 50% off everything sale. 

 

I won't get free content... but i'm ahead $77.50

 

After Elemental I couldn't drop cash on a pre-order at full price. Really I should say after Hellgate: London's 250$ 'lifetime subscription' I learned to never put significant money down on a video game that hasn't fully materialized.

Reply #9 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I will be honest, I did not play any of the alpha or beta, but I still think it was worth the money. Look forward to more games made this way.

Reply #10 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Jeslijar, reply 8

I won't get free content... but i'm ahead $77.50


End of Jeslijar's quote

 

I guess it depends on how many DLC and expansions you buy. Considering how much content that has been thrown out for previous titles by SD I would actually say you are behind. Again, depends on what you are interested in. I want everything so the original $100 price is a drop in the bucket compared to what I'm predicting I would have paid for otherwise. 

$50 used of $100 for a game with a 7 year planned release schedule. 

Reply #11 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Jeslijar, reply 8

After Elemental I couldn't drop cash on a pre-order at full price. Really I should say after Hellgate: London's 250$ 'lifetime subscription' I learned to never put significant money down on a video game that hasn't fully materialized.
End of Jeslijar's quote

 

I would agree with you if it was any company other than Stardock.  I absolutely trust them in regards to Galciv.  Especially after Elemental, because they gave away a lot of free stuff to make that right.

Reply #12 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Illauna, reply 10


Quoting Jeslijar,
reply 8

I won't get free content... but i'm ahead $77.50




 

I guess it depends on how many DLC and expansions you buy. Considering how much content that has been thrown out for previous titles by SD I would actually say you are behind. Again, depends on what you are interested in. I want everything so the original $100 price is a drop in the bucket compared to what I'm predicting I would have paid for otherwise. 

$50 used of $100 for a game with a 7 year planned release schedule. 

End of Illauna's quote

 

I don't really know about what is planned for GalCiv 3 when it comes to expansions. I do know what Stardock has done with the past with expansions though.

 

GalCiv 2 only had two expansions. 

 

Elemental: War of Magic had no expansions. In a way it was the "early release" version of Fallen Enchantress.

 

Fallen Enchantress has 6 DLC packs available on steam for 5$ a piece. None of them overhaul anything. One adds a race. Looking at it... I don't really want any of it. The race would be nice I guess, if I played FE.

 

If you compare Stardock games to something like say... Crusader Kings 2 which has around 200$ of paid DLC available today...  They don't seem like they are heavy into DLC or expansions.

CK2 has gotten nine expansion packs that add whole new mechanics to the game, new gameplay areas, etc etc... if Paradox had a 100$ 'early buy all dlc' option with crusader kings 3 it would be a no brainer for me since i've bought all of the CK2 expansions. Stardock just... hasn't done that. 

 

Ultimately with all the games that come out and how much free time I actually have, should Stardock release lots of extra content i'll just pick it up 6-9 months later with 50-75% off in a Steam Sale. It's just a single player game to me anyway.... it's not like an MMO where expansions are required.

The only unique benefit of spending 100$ was naming a star and getting alpha access. I could add a star name in the xml files... and everybody knows this game will be better in a couple years after release compared to when it was in alpha. lol

Reply #13 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Jeslijar, reply 8


Quoting econundrum1,
reply 7

I know it was a lot of money up front but it's a saving in the long run on dlc and expansions. 



 

I paid a whopping $22.50 back in November when they had the 50% off everything sale. 

 

I won't get free content... but i'm ahead $77.50

 

After Elemental I couldn't drop cash on a pre-order at full price. Really I should say after Hellgate: London's 250$ 'lifetime subscription' I learned to never put significant money down on a video game that hasn't fully materialized.

End of Jeslijar's quote
[quote who="Jeslijar" reply="8" id="3549548"]

 

OK, as I have posted before, I also did the November thing but I don't think I am $77.50 ahead, regardless of how much dlc or expansions there may be.  I feel like I am $77.50 behind --- the money I should have spent to be a founder.    I had a great time since November but I missed being in on the ground floor.  Actually don't think I can put a price on that.   Clearly going founder on any game starting to be developed has to take into account the company, the developers, the community, the price and a lot of other stuff, and is not an easy decision. so it's not something to do very often or lightly. But in this case, n retrospect, it was a big  mistake for me to wait for the beta sale.   Just my take.

    

Reply #14 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Jeslijar, reply 12

I don't really know about what is planned for GalCiv 3 when it comes to expansions. I do know what Stardock has done with the past with expansions though.
End of Jeslijar's quote

 

4 major expansions and 4-6 DLC packs per year.  Per Brad.

Reply #15 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Well, if we're playing the "I'm ahead/behind" game, obviously the people who wait 'till 2022 or so will "win" when an "end of development" bundle goes out (as I am sure it will).  Then again, there's the group who buys in 2025 or so when said bundle is 80% off (or more).

 

c'course, you  do have to sit a bit to "win", which some might consider a "loss"', but there you are.  ;)

 

That being said, and taking my tongue out of my cheek, I am sure there will be a way to "win" if one keeps waiting for the inevitable bundles and sales that will happen.  But even then one will probably have to wait for months to get the right deal.  Not so important if one doesn't care about DLC/expansions right away.  But still a consideration.

As I said the last time this came up, all that really matters is if one feels they got what they paid for.  I will, and therefore I'm satisfied. :)

Reply #16 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Jeslijar, reply 8


Quoting econundrum1,
reply 7

I know it was a lot of money up front but it's a saving in the long run on dlc and expansions. 



 

I paid a whopping $22.50 back in November when they had the 50% off everything sale. 

 

I won't get free content... but i'm ahead $77.50

 

After Elemental I couldn't drop cash on a pre-order at full price. Really I should say after Hellgate: London's 250$ 'lifetime subscription' I learned to never put significant money down on a video game that hasn't fully materialized.

End of Jeslijar's quote

You're up for now you'll be down in the long term  :erk: , I take the long view. Actually elemental is what convinced me I like Fallen enchantress if not elemental itself so I think that in the end stardock always make things right and $75.00 for GC2 and all it's expansions would have been a fine price.

 

Reply #17 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I have to disagree with the OP on some points.

 

The sticker price, and the knowledge I would never have to worry about being nickel-and-dimed by DLC, is a big reason why I joined in at $100.  It was a good deal, I figured I'd get at least $60 of stuff, plus a stretch of a fun game with new toys added on a regular basis, and having new things added to a game is one of the best ways to give it longevity in my eyes.  I actually think I prefer the process sometimes more than the finished product.


That said, I don't mind more testers- I don't need to feel special, I just want the best that can be made.  I personally didn't like the star naming, as lets face it, a lot of the star names are pretty damn stupid and unimmersive.  I'd love an option to remove those names.


That said, that sticker price is keeping me from Ashes, but that's because I am flat-out unsure of the game, despite Brad's attempts to compare it to Kohan.  I just can't see the game not requiring ridiculous APM with the sheer number of units, and that's not what I want out of an RTS.  So I think founders programs work better for established franchises than they do for new franchises.

 

I would heavily back an Elemental RTS  or new Sorcerer King at $100 under the same conditions, and I really do wish Stardock went with this model going forward beyond founders editions (I think one price for everything is the fairest model)  It's not that I'm anti-DLC, I just prefer to pay for things upfront, as I'm kinda old-fashioned.