Implementing Closed boarders, Thoughts?

Interesting idea, I like it. gives a bit more"cunning" to the game

I Like the Idea. improves the game a little bit more.

Hope if the work on that system they also made a Change in two Closed borders on for unarmed Ships an one for armed Ships.

i have wanted a closed borders since i started playing in gc2 while i dont necessarily think it should mean war to enter my space i think i should be able to blow up your ships if i catch them in my space without repercussions 

A major difference between Civ, etc., and Galciv is that space is porous.     "Trench lines" and "bottleneck defenses" don't apply.    Violation of one's ZOI should have diplomatic consequences, and there should be a diplomatic option to demand ships to leave friendly space or face DoW (which overrides any ideology block).   But that's it, in my opinion.

Duplicate post.

I would echo Bamdorf's post, but Bamdorf already did that for me!

They have said essentially that the borders you see in game designate the reach of your cultural influence, but actual political borders in GCIII do not extend beyond the orbit of a planet. Unless they change their minds, there will almost certainly not be closed borders in the game at release.

Personally what i see is closed boarders is me declaring i dont want you in my space. the biggest thing here is that it lets the ai know how i feel so it wont ask for open borders we can be friends just dont come over to visit. 

now i would also like to see some options for ships that break closed borders if i can 'catch' a ship violating my borders i should eithar be able to

arrest the crew and confiscate the ship ( malevelent )

Give them a ticket and escort the ship to a selected border ( pragmatic ) ( the ship joins your fleet as a non combat ship you can direct its movement until you exit your space at which turn its returned to owners controll)

give them a stern warning and let them go with instructions to head To the nearest border. 

Personally what i see is closed boarders is me declaring i dont want you in my space. the biggest thing here is that it lets the ai know how i feel so it wont ask for open borders we can be friends just dont come over to visit. 

now i would also like to see some options for ships that break closed borders if i can 'catch' a ship violating my borders i should eithar be able to

arrest the crew and confiscate the ship ( malevelent )

Give them a ticket and escort the ship to a selected border ( pragmatic ) ( the ship joins your fleet as a non combat ship you can direct its movement until you exit your space at which turn its returned to owners controll)

give them a stern warning and let them go with instructions to head To the nearest border. 

I personally don't like the idea of having closed borders in the form of auto-war declarations. Increased diplomatic penalties would be work though, and perhaps even some version of a cold war state where if another civ's ship is in your territory you can destroy it without declaring war on the ship's owners.  I do like the idea though that space is exponentially more difficult to patrol and monitor then land, so interstellar borders are near impossible to enforce.

There was a nice UP resolution in GC II that said that if there was a DoW, all now enemy ships within an ZoC were put outside of it automatically.  This stopped the Mass Ships Near Targets and then Declare 'exploit'.  There was a similar one where no hostile actions could take place until one turn after the DoW, again aimed at stopping, or at least minimizing the Mass Ships Near Targets and then Declare 'exploit'.

If that was brought back in as a diplomatic option (via a UP vote), that might lessen the need for Closed Borders.

Alternatively, having Closed Borders, period, might be an interesting UP resolution.  How that would allow freighters and/or exploratory vessels in I'll leave as an exercise for others to figure out.

I already see a diplomatic factor that says it is a minus for having ships/starbases in their space without Open Borders.  Is that what some people are asking for?

And this might be leading to a new topic but ,

Can i modify those diplomacy bonus's based on what i want? 

If im playing an open and welcoming race i may want to make it so that having an open borders policy is a big plus and trading is also a big plus if im playing a xenophobic race i may want to set open borders and trading as minus's 

Exactly how I used to play Civ; I found the AI wouldn't get pissy with you if you didn't give them open borders, and they basically couldn't scout your land, and then become envious of how awesome it was.

Would I enjoy a similar feature in Gal Civ?

You bet your boots.

I've been sick to death of the AI stealing my anomalies for YEARS.

Yes, there is a diplomatic penalty for ignoring borders. The only AI reaction I have noticed is when you speak to another race while in their territory they reply by (sarcastically?) thanking you for coming in person to speak to them.

I have no doubt that the penalty for crossing borders can be modded up and I wouldn't mind an on/off option for more restricted borders to play around with. It would also be neat to be able to treaty for a neutral zone where it would be open season and your own borders that would be an act of war to violate. I don't see the devs doing it but if someone did a mod with those features I would try it. It would fit well with a Star Trek mod

Overall, this is not a big issue for me. Based on the credit value of an open borders treaty, it is not much of an issue for the AI either.  

In civilization 3 this was alright,  then it became annoying. First of all it hibders scouting,  because nomatter what you do you can't explire. Second if you didn't trade for open borders the ai would get but hurt because it couldn't figure out how to do anything else diplomatically. The way it was in civilization four it didn't make sense,  because if you didn't have a military you could keep a super power who didn't respect you out, this if fine,  not great if in order to keep people out without a declaration of way you have to catch them first. What i'm saying it is a miner addition at best,  or at worst it is a very bad game mechanic where a super power can't enter a territory where all he wants to do is cross when he has a fleet of huge hull ships,  where as the other guy has one tiny hull fighter. I think it makes a nice idea where ypu can threaten,  but can't keep them out without catching them.

Now as long as you understandi'm against the way it was done in civ four we can move on. Now as far as passive closed borders where you have to catch the ships unless you declare war on the offending faction you would arrest them with options to do from arresting them. Once caught i should have an option to resist arrest where i choose to fight it out. Haveing a united proposal which i could vote against wpuld be alright. Having this as a game or mod option which i probably not download this mod would be alright.

I do think if you had closed borders this wpuld be a diplomatic negative against you from everyone whowasn't friendly with you. I think things like routs,  and certain kind of ship exemptions shpuld be allowed on diffetent kinds of closed border treaties,  and if you didn't give ai's open border treaties their should be a diplomatic hit. 

Just to reiterate if you are trying to cteate a unpassable border without trying to protect it theni'm 100 percent wholeheartedly against it. If you are trying to tell me to get out of my territory.then that's fine as long as you can't do anything unless you can catch me, or declare war then i don't mind the idea.

Now as far as mechanics goes there would have to be a grandfather clause in case of planets already colonised,  and starbases in your zone of influence. 

A good example could be how Endless legend hit the nail on the head with open/closed boarders system. (along with the diplomacy point system, its practically a ingenious system for stopping tons of exploits and quirky AI stuff). 

Now to avoid human error; if you try move a unit into someones territory that have there boarders closed then you would be asked if you want to start war.

In RL boarders and airspace are a very big deal especially were national security is concerned. Fly over Washington DC,,, one warning then your in trouble. Fly over North Korea, I don't even think they give warnings.

In gal civ 2 allot of my wars have been started just because someones ships kept flying in my zone of supposed control. Its like a stranger coming into my house uninvited and starts casing the place. Then when I find them start building star bases in my ZOC,,, . Its like the AI is saying , "hey I built a star base for you (troll face), do you wanna buy it from me or start a war with me and my ally? (grin)." I have always hated that element that I like to call, "starbase cancer", because you become the bad guy now and have to initiate war or be extorted and remain the good guy.

Open and closed boarders would also alleviate some of the AI's dumb decisions like building crap on our lawn just because they can and don't realize the percussion's they could face because the AI doesn't know what a boarder is.  Diplomatic hits don't really hurt ya much if your casing there goods anyways because any good tactician knows what comes after scouts,,,, armies.

*It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle.*

The only real brain twister I can think up of is the scenario when someones boarders/ZOC starts surrounding your planet. Now you can't move a ship out without causing war but then again that's what happened to the humans per-say trapped on earth. Then again it becomes a personal fault issue because if that happens you must have been neglecting your culture and deserved such a fate anyways.

At any rate a conscious acknowledgment of boarders would make 'future espionage' and diplomacy necessary in a big way and also alleviates quirky AI actions that makes it appear suicidal while unintentionally forcing your hand at times. Lastly, a culture victory would no longer be the easiest way to win ether.

 Now don't get me wrong, Gal civ is an awesome game as it is and is a true gem but the lack of boarder awareness really leaves allot of passive options/strategies out of the game. There is a shallow feeling about it at times. I guess the bottom line is simply this; the person who invented the wheel was pretty slick but not a genius, the person who utilized two wheels, opened a whole world of opportunity's, that's genius. Never underestimate the potential of small things because there easily overlooked. No pun intended Stardock, you have a great wheel. 

There are two major things about that UP Resolution that I hated, as well as a minor thing or two that annoyed me. Firstly, cultural influence boundaries and actual territorial boundaries did not necessarily align; those colonies of yours that I've managed to bring under my influence? Those are in "my" space, based on how the UP Resolution defines things, and I can mass ships next to them for the turn-1 attack when I declare war without any issues. Meanwhile, any ships that you put into the area to defend those colonies? Those get kicked out of the area because it's "my" space. And secondly, it teleported ships without costing them any action points regardless of how far the ships had to move. I'd much rather see the ships put on autopilot or see them lose a number of actions related to how far into enemy space they were than magically teleporting them out.

As far as the minor things that annoyed me go - I'm a big evil space empire, so evil that the indicator is pushing past the end of the evil scale, my empire's power is such that everyone else in the galaxy combined is weaker than me, and yet I cannot ignore this little resolution despite no one having sufficient power to enforce it if I were to violate it? I have no reason to leave the UP aside from that since I effectively control the place, but I can't get rid of this nuisance? I'd really much rather these kinds of things were more "voluntary but with penalties if you fail to comply" than "you must comply regardless of the circumstances and you have no choice in the matter aside from voting on the resolution or any potential repeal the next time it comes up, and oh by the way the resolution you vote on is random so good luck on getting that repeal going."

At least please don't give a diplomatic penalty to a person who declares war on someone that is inside their borders.  I think it is ridiculous to get a war monger penalty when I preemptive strike someone in my territory with an invasion fleet.

I can't talk about endless legends,  but i can talk about endless space,  which this sucked it stopped exploration in the early game. The closed borders you described is the problem where to rnter one's space you either had to have an open borders agreement,  or declare war. This can only bting a hindered atmosphere to the game. This is one of the drawbacks to endless space,  and civilization.  

Now the way it was done in civilization three where you can threaten an opponent to declare war on them. If i chose the option to move out manually or automatically it did. If i chose to ignore it it let me. If i chose to say no it let me. 

If i said no, or ignored you then you had a choice to let it go,  or go to war with me. Either way there was no magical hand keeping me out of your territory. Now you want to add an option to arrest me. I only like this idea if you use a ship that have to catch me if i refuse. I like the idea of closed borders anouncement to other factions. I also think you hsve to see me. 

I have some ideas about having different kind of open borders agreements. Like establishing trade routes that you can move through. Picking what kind of ships to restrict.  If you arrest.me I have a right to resist. About diplomatic penalties that depends how other factions feel about you, and what kind of closed border agreement you have depends on how much of a penalty there is.

Part of the fun of being an insane, isolationist, xenophobic race is being at war with all your neighbors because they don't listen to "Keep Out" message delivered repeatedly by your warships.     I do wish, though, that the AI would notice that I only destroy their ships when they enter the space I've claimed as mine and only invade their worlds when they steal worlds within my sphere.   It would save me a lot of wasted resources.   At the very least, I would very much like their colony ships and constructors to stay out of my space (or at least acknowledge what they are doing will anger me and be smart enough to escort them with heavier firepower).

"Only an idiot fights a war on two fronts. Only the heir to the throne of the kingdom of idiots would fight a war on twelve fronts"

Now you are talking about a passive closed border which is fine. No arbitrary fields around empires.