As you can pass borders from everyone; where is the problem ?

I don't mind this one and usually I rush for malevolent then benevolent, pracmatic at the end

I mean. I don't mind it's existence. It is just so powerful that I feel like you should be forced to make an early game sacrifice to get it. Which right now just isn't the case

Theoretically pirates should not be affected by this ability, or at least i would hope so that way there is still  some military involved.

also there was some talk of allowing your units to go pirate and be able to do dastardly things without having to declare war this might have just been player discussion but it might open up some options.

I just think limiting it to early game will prevent 90% of the abuse which typically occurs mid to late game.

For example, culture pushes like that described would be quite hard to do in the first 100 turns - or at least nowhere near as effective. But at say, turn 100 or so, picking up 100 turns of midgame immunity could be really brutal.

It also needs to be an investment. For example, even if limited to the first 100 turns, if it is a tier 1 pickup in pragmatic it could be feasibly combined with the (currently broken) tier 3 benevolent colonisation tech for well... epic galaxy wide expansion with no risks.

Imagine rushing tier 3 colonisation, then grabbing tier 1 pragmatic... would give you at least 50+ turns of immunity? Pumping out colony ships with 0.5 pop with no need for defence...

It needs to be tuned so only a pragmatic player can get it and it only lasts for early game. 

I don't like this trait as it is.  It's no fun to play against AI that are using it.  And I can't figure out how it makes sense story wise...I mean, what's physically stopping my ships from shooting at their ships?  It seems to be just an arbitrary block.  And 100 turns is a very long time.  There must be a way to rework this trait so it's fun.  Maybe change it so that you CAN declare war on them if you want, but at a huge diplomatic penalty with the other races. 

Larsenex

I broadly agree - it makes sense to have a neutral trait that prevents war. The problem right now is that because it is t1, it is way too easy for non neutral players to access. Furthermore, it can become abusive late game. 

I like the idea of being able to declare war with some severe diplomatic penalty. Like say, being thrown out of the UP and all races of neutral and opposite ideology to you declare war. Or something similar

Again for some Ideas and remember this no war thing will also apply to the minors and other races we are going to have. Lets split this feature into parts. 

Tier 1 no one can attack you for 35 turns, Ai can and will declare war but are prohibited from Attacking you for this turn limit. If you enter the influence of any player/ai you are 'at war' with this neutrality will automatically be removed and you can be attacked. Note: having a player drop a starbase in your territory does not apply for this purpose. 

Tier 4, 'The Diplomats', All wars with you cease and no UP faction can declare war on you for 60 turns. Non UP members, Pirates and Minors are not restricted by this feature. 

Just tossing ideas here...

I think the problem people have with this trait is that it's wildly different from all the other declare war options.

* benevolent has the one where races who declare war on you * maybe some others that affect how races view certain activities

* malevolence has no penalty for shared borders.

*neutral simply has "cant touch this!"

if your benevolent race is prickish enough nobody will care that attacking you gives them the same penalty every on else has.

if your malevolent race is abusing those shared borders, the completed Ai had better care about what you are doing (influence flipping or whatever).

larsenex has a good  et of ideas

Agree that this trait needs a rework or needs to go.  What a tedious game if just before you are about to have a military conquest victory you have to click end turn 100 times because the last civ picked this trait.  uhhhhh annoying.  The whole point of war is a break down in any law and regulation and resorting to the law of force.  A stupid piece of paper didnt stop the British in 1775 nor would it matter to Japan in 1941.  Why would it matter to enslaving Drengin hell beant on devestation?  This trait not only doesn't make sense, it is a game breaker/

I don't have a problem with it as is.

I usually don't use it in a smaller map game. In big map games I try to wait as long as possible since I usually don't get war in the first 100 turns anyway. I waited too long recently and the Drengin declared on me but were out of range, which is also kind of goofy. About 50 turns later they asked for peace without a shot being fired

If everyone (majority) wants it gone it should be gone, but I am not seeing enough posters in this thread to get it done unless Paul or Frogboy have already decided they don't like it. When 4-5 people are in favor of something it can sound like a popular position, but 4-5 will not make it a priority. There is a long thread on mixing ideology but there is still no consensus on how it should work.

I don't usually declare war in the game but I want the AI to come after me at some point. A long game without combat can be boring.

The trait should probably specify that members of the council can't declare war on you. The minors should not be included.

It is hard to judge some of these things when the game is nowhere near what it will be when released

I get it. If something is causing me problems and messing with my enjoyment, I want it changed. but this issue has not caused any problems for me so far.

I am totally okay with changing it if that's what everyone wants to do.

Why not make it a trait that while you get, there's a UP vote where the other races get to say (obviously you can vote for the largest number if you've got enough diplomatic grunt) how many turns free from Drengin/other race harm you get. This ties it in more to your choices based on the Galactic Events and your relations with various players. Why should the Drengin, who hate you because you culture flipped Kora IV, wait for 100 turns before bitchslapping you?

This means

1: The trait can stay as early in the game as it currently is, tier 1

2: What you get is like a voucher, it's up to the UP vote what numbers written in the xx of "This Voucher Entitles The Bearer To xx Turns Of No Attack".

3: Occurs to me as I'm typing this that if the UP votes and you end up with 1 Turn Of No Attack, even as an easy Teir 1 trai to get you'll be wondering why the fuck you bothered?!? Queue rage quit. Once you have that trait which obviously is yours for life, you can - one you're diplomatically cool enough or can force it via economic/cultural power - periodically front the UP and ask that you get a vote on how many Turns War Free you're getting this year. Note: This vote by it's nature will make your diplomatic relations with every race take a hit, you are rubbing noses in dirt and you can only do it when your relations with the majority of UP races are good - ie 6 other races in the UP, you have to be on good relations with 4 of them.

4: This is true for all races (to stop the player from becoming too powerful), ie the Drengin have the same trait and want to force a UP vote because of my "Matey With The Majority" rule. This provides scope for major dipolomacy between the races before the vote with regards to who'll vote for what and what they'll get for that vote.

Should this trait be tradeable - either permanently or as a loan ie Drengin will get Neutrality from you for 500bc but must give it back in Turn 50. you restrict them by limiting the time they hold your Neutrality Voucher and therefore what they'll get from going to a UP vote for the Turns of No Attack number? And, once espionage is up and running, stealable.

And of course if you're the aggressor the Voucher becomes void.