Yor and Extending Starbase Range tech (Tech Tree Comment/Question for Devs)

from GalCiv3 Forums

A couple of weeks ago while I was first playing the Yor, I ran across what was a somewhat nasty, if minor, surprise when I saw that they did not have any tech to extend the coverage range of their starbases.  I should have checked their tech tree before planning placement of my starbases, of course.  But it still was a something of a surprise that they didn't get any starbase range tech.  Especially given that since they are a synthetic race, you'd think that sort of thing would be right up their alley.  However, I just chalked it up to "One of those things" and let it be.

Well, I had nothing better to do tonight, so I was checking out each of the major races tech trees  that are currently in the game for interesting unique things, when I noticed something odd.  Each of the other five races in the game so far all get the two starbase range extension techs at one point or another.  The Yor are the only race not to get it.  

What I was wondering is whether this was an oversight in the Yor tech tree or something intentional.  The odd thing is, they get a LOT of range extension tech for their ships.  Which makes sense from a lore point of view.  Yet they never get the starbase extension one, which makes less sense to me.

So I thought I would mention this here, as it is something of a detailed question best suited for feedback here than elsewhere.

4,889 views 8 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I just recently ran into the same thing, and was wondering this my self.

Is it a case of just not having been added yet, or a balance decision?

Reply #2 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I also came across the same discrepancy and decided to dig through the tech tree a little further and came to a few other surprising discovers. I'll note the most eggregious here:

  1. Altarians have by far the worst terraforming. Instead of biospheres and ultra-terraformer, which can terraform 1 of any tile and any number of poor quality tiles, they just get biosphere manipulators, which can only terraform 1 poor quality tile (contrary to the description). This means the Altarians have terrible worlds compared to other races late game.
  2. As stated, the Yor do not get starbase range extensions.
  3. Drengin manufacturing and research improvements cap at 60%, in contrast to the manufacturing cap of 75% and research cap of 100% of most other races. The Yor suffer even more than this with both capping at 50%, although I assume that is to balance their lack of need for farms. The two races do get powerful unique buildings in the form of slave factories and quantum matrices, but again these are at the cost of power plants that other races get.
  4. Several techs simply do not unlock the buildings they say they do. I don't have a good list on me right now, but I've research a few techs expecting to be able to now build something and found myself unable too. The one that comes to mind right now is tournaments for the Drengin, as well as slave coordination.

Personally, I think there's no excuse for the Altarian terraforming problem, as it makes them basically unplayable. The Yor starbase issue also prevents as excessive starbase stacking as with other races, but personally I think starbases shouldn't stack anyway as that just adds really unpleasant micro to the game with positioning and upgrading of countless starbases, but that's just my opinion. The production and research thing I get to an extend with the Yor, but it does seem to heavily handicap the Drengin.

Siege of Centauri
Reply #3 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Dajoshe,

The Altarian terraforming issue was mentioned a while back. I think but I am (not sure) that this will be address later or even after gold. In any event many of these issues will quickly be fixed by us as modders and tinkerers to the game files. Its fairly easy to do and safe. 

Reply #4 from GalCiv3 Forums Top
Quoting DaJoshe, reply 2

 The Yor suffer even more than this with both capping at 50%, although I assume that is to balance their lack of need for farms.


End of DaJoshe's quote

The balance is the Yor tech tree's improvements to adjacency bonuses, along with their 20% production bonus, which makes them very good manufacturers with decent planning.  First appearances can be deceiving - they aren't the slightest bit lacking in manufacturing capability.

Reply #5 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

What about research? Not to mention are you including all the super projects with a few average galactic achievements, .or trade goods. You also have to remember that some msnufactoring is taken out for growth. So what you have is farms,  manufacturing,  research,  economics,  and diplomacy EQUALS YORS MANUFACTURING,  and research. 

Reply #6 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Turkwise, reply 4

The balance is the Yor tech tree's improvements to adjacency bonuses, along with their 20% production bonus, which makes them very good manufacturers with decent planning.  First appearances can be deceiving - they aren't the slightest bit lacking in manufacturing capability.
End of Turkwise's quote

- If you take all the manufacturing adjacency bonuses, you get a total of +5 levels to your factories, which gives them +25% manufacturing. This means it takes 5 techs just for the your factories to pull even with the basic manufacturing tree. That's 5 techs at an opportunity cost of your research which is gimped even harder than your manufacturing, or your growth.

- They don't get power plants which is a HUGE disadvantage.

 -It's not really fair to add in their racial trait because the traits and the tech trees are separate systems and there are opportunity costs here as well. Besides, the equivalent of one level 3 Manufacturing Yor is only relevant in the very beginning of the game or on planets where you aren't building manufacturing.

Yor production is most definitely weaker than the races that get the default manufacturing tree.

Reply #7 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting DaJoshe, reply 2


Drengin manufacturing and research improvements cap at 60%, in contrast to the manufacturing cap of 75% and research cap of 100% of most other races. The Yor suffer even more than this with both capping at 50%, although I assume that is to balance their lack of need for farms. The two races do get powerful unique buildings in the form of slave factories and quantum matrices, but again these are at the cost of power plants that other races get.
End of DaJoshe's quote

 

I suspect most of the $race only goes to $tech problems are oversights. With that said, other races do not have their racial advantages "balanced" by reduced capabilities in what they build.  Terrans don't get reduced quality ship components or a different sort of reduced bonus diplomacy techs.

Reply #8 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting peregrine23, reply 6


Quoting Turkwise,
reply 4

The balance is the Yor tech tree's improvements to adjacency bonuses, along with their 20% production bonus, which makes them very good manufacturers with decent planning.  First appearances can be deceiving - they aren't the slightest bit lacking in manufacturing capability.



- If you take all the manufacturing adjacency bonuses, you get a total of +5 levels to your factories, which gives them +25% manufacturing. This means it takes 5 techs just for the your factories to pull even with the basic manufacturing tree. That's 5 techs at an opportunity cost of your research which is gimped even harder than your manufacturing, or your growth.

- They don't get power plants which is a HUGE disadvantage.

 -It's not really fair to add in their racial trait because the traits and the tech trees are separate systems and there are opportunity costs here as well. Besides, the equivalent of one level 3 Manufacturing Yor is only relevant in the very beginning of the game or on planets where you aren't building manufacturing.

Yor production is most definitely weaker than the races that get the default manufacturing tree.

End of peregrine23's quote

 

D'oh! Peregrine proves me wrong again! Anyways, I suspect this kind of thing will be addressed when they get to balancing closer to release.