Ideology Table Conflict

from GalCiv3 Forums

In the current Table, there is a Malevolent trait that makes colonies immune to influence flipping.   I can see the point, there ought to be some counter to overpowering influence.   However, there is also a Benevolent trait that supposedly causes all colonies within your zone of control flip to your side.   These two traits appear to be contradictory.   In my games it appears the Malevolent trait trumps the Benevolent trait.

Because the contradiction is so clear I don't see how to resolve this, or what one ought to expect in game.

 

3,121 views 10 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Thank you for bringing this up. It's the old "immovable object" versus the "irresistible force" dilemma.

I would expect the Benevolent trait to trump the Malevolent trait, because the Benevolent trait has a reduced, specialized scope, i.e., it only applies in one's zone of control.  It allows the Malevolent trait to apply everywhere else.  It doesn't render the Malevolent trait 100% useless until all existing factions have the Benevolent trait.  On the other hand, the Malevolent trait neutralizes the Benevolent trait everywhere, and for all races whether they achieve the Benevolent trait now or in the future, and so has a clearly larger scope. The antidote for the Malevolent trait is that all races must adopt the Benevolent trait. So when one achieves the Benevolent trait, something is guaranteed to happen.  If the Malevolent trait is supreme, then achieving the Benevolent trait might result in no change at all.  Achieving the Malevolent trait is unproductive ONLY when all other races have already inoculated themselves by achieving the Benevolent trait.

In other words, it takes much more effort to completely defeat one race's Malevolent achievement if the Benevolent trait trumps the Malevolent trait.  That's my preference.

Reply #2 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

It would appear that the evil trait wins

Playing as the Alterians I had the bene trait and could not get any planets from the Dregin or Yor to flip.

ObjectDock - Access shortcuts and frequently used applications from an animated dock.
Reply #3 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I usually shy away from adding negative adding effects but this trait is to powerful not to do so.

The negative effect of this trait should be the loss of trade, tourism, and ability of culture to affect enemies culture.  

This is also very logical.  To stop cultural Influences within a nation you would have to stop communication of most forms which would include tourism, trade, and your citizens from interacting with the opposing influence.  Thus removing your citizens capability of influencing others.

Even with these negative effects it will remain a powerful trait but not carelessly chosen.

Reply #4 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I don't approve. :)

Influence is supposed to be a potential victory and the malevolent trait takes an Influence V off the table while all other victories are still possible. There should not be any trait that alters potential victories without some way to trump that trait. Even if it is very late game, there should be a way to trump it for every affinity.

I am not sure the AI has what it takes to evaluate the negative effects of the choice and they will go for it every time. If they don't change it, Influence Victory will be restricted to smaller maps. It was already next to impossible on an immense map, but this will make it official and not possible to strive for.

Reply #5 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Franco, reply 4

Influence is supposed to be a potential victory and the malevolent trait takes an Influence V off the table while all other victories are still possible. There should not be any trait that alters potential victories without some way to trump that trait. Even if it is very late game, there should be a way to trump it for every affinity.
End of Franco's quote

An influence victory requires your influence to be predominant throughout the galaxy (75-76% depending on which info you're reading)
as far as i understand that means Sphere of Influence and not controlled planets Can anyone confirm i dont usually play influence victory so i am not sure of the nuance's  

if so this in no way invalidates an influence victory on larger maps it should actually make influence a viable alternative since flipping all planets would count as a conquest victory (IMO)

Reply #6 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

@ androshalforc

You're correct. An influence victory does not require that you culture flip all planets.

All you need to win an influence is to have your culture (zone of control, or territory, or whatever you want to call it) to cover a percent of the galaxy. Once you control the minimum, you have to hold it for about 10 turns. Yes, it does work. I sometimes have to go and turn this victory off mid game so I can go win a conquest victory. I have on occasion had to do that after loading an autosave because I had won an influence victory when I didn't want to win that way.

Reply #7 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I see what you mean. Flipping the planet is unimportant as long as you have overtaken the SOI. The trait does not protect the SOI, only flipping. I get it now.

I have never flipped all planets but I assumed that if that happened it would be an influence victory, but maybe it would be conquest

Reply #8 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

As far as my experience goes the Benevolent "Enticing" trait doesn't do anything at the moment. Influence will flip planets within 10 turns, and it will never flip starbases - with or without the trait, it makes no difference.

 

Reply #9 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

All colonies immune to flipping. All colonies are flipped to you in your influence. Why doesn't this cancel each other out.