[.51][Bug] Economic Stimulus still generates income instead of wealth

Manufacturing is exponentially influence by production modifiers (manufacturing capital, star bases, factories, race traits, etc) and then converting it to income which in itself is exponentially influence by financial modifiers (financial capital, star bases, improvements, etc) which will generates an excessive amount of wealth.

The description states "Pumping out consumer goods from our factories encourages economic activity - and therefore the growth of our treasury." which mean it should increase the generated wealth and not the generated income.

PlanetaryProjectDefs.xml:

For ProjectEconomicStimulus currently reads <EffectType>ColonyGrossIncome</EffectType> it should be <EffectType>ColonyNetIncome</EffectType>.

 

114,702 views 13 replies
Reply #1 Top

Actually, running through both production pipelines (manuf + research, or manuf + wealth) may be the intent.  If you can (live long enough to) build it, maybe you deserve it.

If all equally skilled players are equally overpowered ... then they're balanced :grin:

Reply #2 Top

Quoting Gilmoy, reply 1

If all equally skilled players are equally overpowered ... then they're balanced
End of Gilmoy's quote

Gilmoy,

I know you are a smart guy, so you know that even a small difference in skill (or luck) when exponentially modified (twice) may become an unsurmountable power difference very, very fast.

Reply #3 Top

Thank you for bringing this up, I will make sure to refer with Paul on the matter.

Reply #4 Top

Pretty sure this is working as intended. It is balanced against turning your slider all the way to economics. Your manufacturing is divided by 4, so only after you surpass 300% manufacturing bonus will you break even. After that you come out ahead of simply moving your slider over, but you will still be massively behind what your planet would be producing if you replaced your manufacturing buildings with economic buildings, as after 300% your manufacturing buildings essentially become economic buildings operating at 25%.

Reply #5 Top

Peregrine23,

Made the following screenshots to prove my point.

Check them out, with only 3 star bases influencing Earth. By far the best wealth generator is the production planet at 100% manufacturing. Even a 'financial' planet performs better wealth-wise when at 100% manufacturing than at 100% wealth.

Earth as a financial planet, 100% Wealth: 6015.5

Financial Planet Economic Stimulus 100% Wealth

Earth as a financial planet, 100% Manufacturing: 7790.5

Financial Planet Economic Stimulus 100% Manufacturing

Earth as a production planet, 100% Wealth: 2237.1

Production Planet Economic Stimulus 100% Wealth

Earth as a production planet, 100% Manufacturing: 21487.2

Production Planet Economic Stimulus 100% Manufacturing

Reply #6 Top

Ya, this is not so much a bug as a balancing issue. We will be working on making sure this is not quite so easy as we move forward. It is hard to balance things to have some value early game, without them becoming over powered late game.
 

Reply #7 Top


For ProjectEconomicStimulus currently reads ColonyGrossIncome it should be ColonyNetIncome.
End of quote


Oh, this is in fact a bug, can't believe that slipped by me so long. Thanks. 

Reply #8 Top

mormegil,

After your first reply i was ready to repeatedly bang my head against the wall while continuously chanting 'Stupid, stupid, stupid...'.

Luckily you made your second reply, after which i thought 'It appears i am not as stupid as i just believed.'. You saved my wall from suffering serious harm. My wall thanks you. :thumbsup:

Reply #9 Top

I'm back, I have been scolded, it should in fact be ColonyGrossIncome, for math reasons beyond my skill level. We will try and make sure that this is address to be clearer to the user. 

Reply #10 Top

im with thecw as i was reading this. we recently had a discussion on iridia where i was making 103,000 wealth per turn with the opportunity to make that higher im still not done seeing how high i can make that

 

https://forums.galciv3.com/458739/page/1/#3502359

Reply #11 Top

I knew something bad had happened when i came back and my wall was very quiet and very still, not moving at all, pretending that he was not there at all. After i saw mormegil's third reply (#9) i knew why he was scared stiff.

"Okay, wall, prepare yourself to get hurt when i'm going to bang my head against you repeatedly." :S

But seriously, i would welcome an explanation of the math reasons. So if anyone knows, please enlighten me.

PS:

Quoting mormegil, reply 9

I have been scolded
End of mormegil's quote

Who dares to scold the all-deciding supreme being of GalCiv design? Give me his/her name and address and i will forward it (including a nice bonus) to a reputable Drengin negotiator. He can then negate the existence of said blasphemer into oblivion. :)  

 

Reply #12 Top

Quoting mormegil, reply 9

it should in fact be ColonyGrossIncome
End of mormegil's quote

 

.... so it is intentional that i can multiply my population by my production buildings and then multiply that value by my economic buildings?

it seems i really need to finish off that game to show how bad this can get 

Reply #13 Top

Yes, I think that is the intent.  Research Project works the same way: you run your production through your entire manuf bonus pipeline, divide by 4 to get Raw Research, and then run that through your entire research bonus pipeline.  So all of your bonuses in both pipelines pay off.

This matters for e.g. Altarian, who have the Dark Energy branch that pump both manuf and research.  They don't have to choose one or the other; they can pursue both.

It's ba-roken only at late-game levels, e.g. you researched Terraforming deep enough to turn your 10 to a 26, and researched manuf deep enough to get max manuf, and maybe destroyed and rebuilt improvements to maximize adjacency bonuses, and researched Economy enough to spam starbases.  If you haven't been invaded three times over or won the game already, you deserve to profit from whatever you generate.  (Conversely, if I haven't killed you already, then I deserve to receive whatever you can buy with that wealth.  Or maybe I have research worlds just as sick as your wealthworlds ... and I'm turtling while I research a Technological Victory.)  Even if a moneyworld does just buy a win, maybe the more efficient strategy is to do only 1/4 of that, and then go win the game much earlier ... and players who adopt that might gradually out-compete you in the open environment.  (I have that problem in eCCGs, where I turtle until I'm ready, and then end up wining by ridiculous overkill ... which meant I could have won by a razor-thin hair several turns sooner.  It does matter when the game is fundamentally a race.)

Expect all numbers to get tweaked many times between now, Beta 3, and Release.  For example, we know Drengin improvements are underbonused, tourism is overvalued, maintenance costs are too low, and diplomatic trade agreements are whacked.  In general, expect everything to get scaled to make things ... harder.  That could mean it will get harder to overproduce at these scales ... or it might get easier, and every AI will do it too :cylon: