Regarding traders

I don't see the problem.  I frequently used trade-ships as explorers that were quicker than the slow Scouts.

The only thing I found annoying in Gal Civ 2 in regards to trading was that I could not upgrade the trade ships.  If I wanted a better one I had kill the trade route, scrap the ship and make a brand new one.  PITA that was.

Yes I agree totally with "abraxus0426";  to be able to upgrade the trade ships on trade routes would be worth having the quid pro quo costs of a delay in the trade ships schedule and the upgrade money costs as before (for other ships in GC2).  You'd have to design a trade ship to upgrade to of course.

The only difference I can see would have any effect is the speed, otherwise a trade module is a trade module. I know you got different incomes depending on where on the route the freighter was but a faster ship not only goes to the profitable end faster it also goes to the less profitable end faster. Doesn't that pretty much cancel out the difference between a slow and a fast ship?

There would be no difference, since the freighter is capped at one space per turn once the route is established. The only purpose to upgrading them would be to start the route with a very fast freighter then replace it with a heavily armed one once the route is established, and Stardock intentionally made them unable to be upgraded specifically to prevent that.

And, frankly, I never saw the point of arming traders.  It's hugely costly to do so (a decent attack/defense armament can triple or more the cost of the freighter).  It's far cheaper to just build a bunch of extra traders, and send them out to destination worlds.  When they get there, and you've already used all your Trade Routes, they can just sit. When another trader dies (often, due to the world changing hands, not "enemy action"), you've got routes all ready to go.   Unarmed traders don't cost any maintenance, so you can have 100 hanging around waiting to start up new routes.

Not to mention that the only way armed traders are useful is against really weak opponents. Any opponent that has even basic upgrades can produce a fleet that will overwhelm any trader possible.  If you really care about defending traders, build a small fleet and assign it to the trader.

I'm still not sure the "X amount per turn" idea of the trade route is the right way to go. I'd like us to try out allowing many more Trade routes, but only getting "paid" when the trader reaches each end of the route, and that the amount paid corresponds to the length of the route, multiplied by the number of trade modules on the trader (and should be a substantial numbers in credits).  Figure maybe 5X the number of routes, with a route being worth 10gc per hex of distance.

That way, there's incentive to create faster traders (besides their ability to set up the trade route faster, you get paid more often), and to have multiple trade modules.

You'd also be incentivized to set up a combination of long routes (for big payouts) and short ones (for frequent payouts) to keep your trade revenue more even.

well i agree with OP to a point.

Setting the trade route in itself isn't really a problem since you can just click the approximative destination on the main map and let the freighter on auto until it reaches destination.

However, i'd like to have some clues on how good a trade route will be, more than "longer is better", before sending the ship.

I mean, hey, i'm going to crush all opposition beneath my heel, my soldiers bravely at my command, my armies undefeatable and my ships which'll touch the sky of every planet in galaxy, but i can't get a hand on a economical advisor telling what the best trade route is or is supposed to be?

Besides, i didn't like that the trade route started from the planet the trader has been build from.

Wouldn't it make more sense to build the freighter (or more accurately a flotilla of freighter) at your shipyard planet, then ask the economical advisor what is the best trade route (between all knowned planets), which can or cannot start from the shipyard planet, and then send the flotilla to go forth the selected trade route?

Economical advisor in this case might be a selection screen: select origin planet, select destination planet, select a free freighter, have a rough estimation of profit and click on the "off to work!" button.  Add some advices on the currently best potentials trade route and here you go, a wonderful trading screen.

It wouldn't prevent exploration with a trade ship if you like this kind of trip but personnally i concur with OP on the fact that it's tedious to set up trade routes, especially when 4 or 5 of them are destroyed following a war declaration.

On that last point, by the way, being able to set some waypoints on a trade route could be nice: i'm trading with empire A and the trade routes go through empire B. Empire B declare war => well merchants, please take a detour instead of continuing right on, trying to dodge lasers and avoid missiles, it'll make little me happy

I like this, I also think number of trade routes to different empire's should factor in as well,

I can buy goods from empire A and sell them to empire B at a profit there could be modifiers on this for example if I have a trade agreement with Empire B that says they will only sell their goods to me then I am the only supplier of their goods in the universe

why not take this up a notch if i'm passing through empire B's space anyway lets make a stop and do some business

Trading started out as a simple game mechanic for civilizations to get just a little extra revenue and to broaden the tactical scope of the game's strategics.  What you're all asking is to have a simple to use but complex game mechanic added, something worthy of a next generation implementation which I'm all for.

An idea I posted in another thread Which really belongs in this thread :

. . .  starbases were frequently used just to expand the travel distance for discovery and trade benefits.

Personally I'd like to see the whole Influence mechanic scrapped and the Trading system overhauled and enhanced, at least enough so that the above objective could be achieved with a *Trading Starbase* [built from constructors of course).  Then you could , say, trade with planets within a radius of X, Y or Z hexes dependent upon Galaxy/Universe size as well as using it as a stepping-stone to other races.

I don't see this as eliminating the need for Tradeships as the above could also serve as way-stations (Privatized by the "Wells Fargo" of the future ? LOL)

I can see some scraps of good ideas in here but when you talk about scrapping the influence mechanic you mustn't forget that you are talking about scrapping the entire Influence Victory mechanic.

Trims2u has a great idea here. I would like everyone to hearken to the stand by..Isaac Asimov's Foundation. "The Traders" Clearly you can control the entire galaxy through trade and this idea of Robber Barons is a good one. 

No need for large armed fleets when the Drengi fear economic collapse from the Terran or Altarian trading power house! You threaten me? Let me buy your neighbors with my trinkets and goods and ask them to deal with you!

Reply #11 [Lucky Jack :

"I can see some scraps of good ideas in here but when you talk about scrapping the influence mechanic you mustn't forget that you are talking about scrapping the entire Influence Victory mechanic."

Well, so be it.  If it's not a good game mechanic why shouldn't it be scrapped ?  Especially when, even though disabling it at game start-up, this doesn't stop the AI from deploying the strategy and tactics of using Influence starbases against you.

 

I would like to see Influence tied to trade (as it should be) along with a 'creeping' of starbases. 

One thing I really would like is trade to be a weighted mechanic to diplomacy. It was to good effect in GC II. If my first contact is with Drengin or Yor, and I initiate trade at about mid game we both are transporting medium to large amounts of goods/services for the profit of both. I want the Drengin to think twice about Declaring War on me. 

Trade. 

It has started wars, and It can prevent wars. It spreads ideas and culture since the dawn of time and will do so as we move through the stars. 

Big Macs for Drengin, now with 44% more Torians!

Agree completely with Larsenex! Influence border spreading in fact should be eliminated entirely; a player should be given a two-hex-radius exclusive economic zone surrounding each planet, split up evenly with another civilization if planets are shared evenly. The only "territory" should consist of planets and star bases.