Extreme Planet types...

To each their own planet type...

from GalCiv3 Forums

I realize these aren't yet available, but before they do get implemented, I'd like to make a suggestion:

DON'T HAVE THEM.

At least, not in the same sense that GC2 had extreme planets.  That is, in GC2,  all races colonized the same basic type, and "Extreme" was the same for all of them, the ability to colonize depending only on access to certain techs.  And the Terraforming techs applied to ALL planet types.

Rather, I'd prefer that we took a more nuanced view.

  1. Categorize all planets into (maybe) 8 different types: Gaseous, Aquatic, Frozen, No Atmosphere, Heavy Gravity, High Radiation, Toxic, Normal
  2. In each category, there should be 5 "levels", corresponding to the 50% production, 100% production, then 3 Terraforming techs from GC2
  3. Each race should be assigned a "native" planet type. They automatically get the first 2 techs in that type.
  4. Certain races may have additional planet type techs (e.g. Iconians).
  5. Each race should have FORBIDDEN planet types - not only should they not be able to research that planet type tech, they shouldn't be allowed to trade for that tech.   This makes is more interesting when there's planets out there that you simply can't ever use, but others might be able to.  And also seems logical, because presuming all races can colonize any planet with just "the right tech" seems a major stretch.
  6. Terraforming is now planet-type specific, and must be research for each planet type. Do away with "generalized" terraforming.
  7. For planets which you don't have the minimal tech for:
    1. Invasions merely wipe out the current population, and change the ownership of the planet. The colony remains at 0 population, and all production/economy/etc is zero-d out.
    2. You can't influence-convert the planet
    3. Obviously, you can't colonize the planet (i.e. you can't put a colony there if none exists)
  8. The 50% penalty applies to ALL aspects of the planet: research, production, and economy. Unlike GC2, where it only affected production.

If I were being mean, I'd say there should be an initial 25%-level for each planet (i.e. three techs: 25/50/100%), and possibly block advancement in certain planet types for each race (i.e. not just an "all or nothing" ability to work a planet type, but limit advancement to say no more than the 100% tech - no terraforming - for certain planet types, or even the minimal 25% tech, etc.)

 

One other thing:  vary the number of new tiles available much more randomly.  High "initial quality" planets should have just as much chance of having many new tiles exposed by the new terraforming as do "low quality" planets, and the inverse.  Additionally, make it so each terraforming tech doesn't always expose the same number of new tiles.   This gives you a much more varied planet selection.  In GC2, I often found that after researching all my terraforming, pretty much all my planets were PQ 12-14, regardless of how they started out.   I'd much rather see a higher deviance, because, once again, planets simply aren't created equal, and no amount of tech will change that.

 

 

 

7,322 views 14 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I do like this concept.

Reply #2 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I do like the concept, but I'm not sure if this change would change the overall dynamic of GalCiv... in other words, would the game you describe above be GalCiv or a new game entirely. We don't want them to change too much of the character that makes Galactic Civilization - GalCiv. 

Do not get me wrong. I would love to see this concept realized in Galactic Civilization. Of course balancing this so there are a sufficient amount of colonizable planets close enough to any character would be a nightmare. Nothing would be more painful than finding the nearest 5 star systems are not habitable until 50 turns down the research tree.

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Reply #3 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Most of the races in GalCiv look like the terran types anyway.

 

Reply #4 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Good idea but bad implementation because of the game mechanics.  Two phrases: cultural domination and invasion.

With invasion the idea is clear: you cannot invade a planet that is not in your "wish list". The problem is that, unless you become able to destroy a planet or have other ways of disabling a planet, that planet will be an untouchable planet and advantage/disadvantage to you (specially if you go for a conquest victory, becoming impossible because, well, you cannot touch that planet by any means).

With cultural domination the thing is worse: What are you going to do if you influence one of those planets? According to GC2 you cannot build (improve, modify or takes an unrealistic time to work) anything unless you research the correct tech, but with your idea you cannot research - buy the correct  tech. You can say that the solution is: "natives". That is, you can work in that planet because of the "natives" being able to work in it at the moment of the cultural influence. Just one thing, if you produce a colony - invasion ship because of that logic you can colonize - invade other planets that you are not allowed to do, breaking the point of having that "wish list" in the first place.

 

 

Reply #5 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

It's an interesting concept, but, to me, it feels too radically different from GalCiv. In that regard, I prefer what Mormegil said their plans are:

In the alpha we do not have any Extreme worlds, *Read locked by tech”. So that players could colonize quickly, and as many planets a possible. This is more of strain on the system, and what we want to see when testing.

What will happen in the future, a 3 tiered approach, similar but not exactly the same as GC2.

Terraforming
Planets in general will be a bit lower class, and players will have to spend some effort though a new terraforming system to make sure they get the highest class out of each world.

Extreme Worlds
These are the classic worlds that are locked by tech, players will not be able to colonize them untill particular terraforming techs are reached. These worlds will often have several levels, and unique bonuses. This alone will encourage colonization much further into the game.

Technological Age.
Both Terraforming, and Extreme worlds will be gated to some degree by the new tech age system. Some worlds will not even be able to be researched until later Ages, this will make sure that there are almost always planets out there to expand to. Not to mention taking other players ;)

I hope this addresses some of you concerns, I hope you will let us know what you think of it when the above features, get finalized.

PS. there will also be a few late game events that can create new worlds.

End of quote

Reply #6 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Each race should have FORBIDDEN planet types - not only should they not be able to research that planet type tech, they shouldn't be allowed to trade for that tech.   This makes is more interesting when there's planets out there that you simply can't ever use, but others might be able to.  And also seems logical, because presuming all races can colonize any planet with just "the right tech" seems a major stretch.
End of quote

You want forbidden just because. While I can agree to a point with the rest of your post, this one is not the case. Technology allows us to survive in extreme/hostile enviroments, be it antarctica, underwater or space. That's (one of) the point(s) of technology that is advanced enough. Make it costly to research and/or implement, but to forbid? No. We talk that eventually people, in the game, can use technology to ascend...

 

What mormegil said is interesting.

Reply #7 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I like your ideas, but I prefer what the devs have already said; there should never be a completely off-limits kind of planet.

Reply #8 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

If the game were to start tracking population by species rather than simply total population, I could see having 'forbidden' world-types as in 'species 8472 cannot colonize Earth-like worlds, but thrives on Venus-like worlds, while species 5618 thrives on Earth-like worlds but cannot colonize Venus-like worlds'. However, without species-level population tracking, I cannot see why my faction could not colonize a world which is habitable for at least one species found within the game, because I don't see my faction as consisting exclusively of members of the faction's founding species. It may be called the Terran Alliance/Altarian Republic/Drengin Empire/Iridium Corporation, but not all of its citizens/subjects/slaves/stockholders are members of the species which lends its name to the faction, at least not in my view.

I also agree with chepelink above that it poses issues if you want to end the game by destroying a faction. If you simply cannot invade a world, what can you do about it? Do I have to sit around waiting to get my Imperial Planetary Ore Extractor up and running, and wait while it floats around popping planets like party balloons? What about culture-flipping? And if I did culture-flip a world full of people with the correct biology or the technology to colonize/invade such worlds, why couldn't I use them to colonize/invade other such planets? (Also, if you want to argue that the inhabitants of the planet might not have the ability to manufacture the proper technology for sustaining life on the world they're on, that's only a supportable argument for a very new colony. Once you have enough of an industrial base for it, there's no good reason to manufacture this kind of stuff elsewhere unless it's enormously cheaper and maintenance, repair, and replacement of failed components isn't time-critical).

I'd be okay with it if the game were to track populations by species and if you could incorporate other species into your empire, but not with the way the game is currently set up.

Reply #9 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I do think it would be an issue for the game if each species did prefer different planet types, less competition for resources would mean less conflict to drive the game.

 

Moo3 tried to go somewhat this way and we all know how that ended.

 

Reply #10 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I like that races would be more inclined to certain planet types that in itself, however, I disagree that any race would be excluded from ever colonizing any planet and below are the reasons...

  1. The more advanced my race gets I may be able to convert an aquatic world into a desert world by selling off or moving all the water, or heating the planet up, or vise-versa.
  2. I may be able to mine the gas from a gas giant and sell that off, and live on the moons. (Even though living on the moons is currently not an option.)
  3. High gravity I may get advanced enough that I mine part of the iron core to reduce the overall gravity, or develop gravity reducers...

Basically the possibilities are endless on why my race may be able to habit any world given enough technology so it should not be limited.  I agree it would be nice to limit what one race can do on certain planets, but I also believe that one race if able to habit certain worlds would completely or partially terraform the planet to a completely different planet type therefore transforming it after so many turns.

Reply #11 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting econundrum1, reply 9

I do think it would be an issue for the game if each species did prefer different planet types, less competition for resources would mean less conflict to drive the game.

 

Moo3 tried to go somewhat this way and we all know how that ended.

 
End of econundrum1's quote

SotS pulled this off quite well, IMHO, so the concept is a valid one. Complete exclusion may be a bit over the top as with enough technology you could do anything. We shall see what the devs have planned out.

Reply #12 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I also like the ideas.

Reply #13 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I agree that you should be able to form mining or millitary outpusts on or orbiting worlds you can't inhabit including gas giants. I don't think you should be able to inhabit for example gas giants unless that was the specific environment your race evolved for.

 

I can see that a degree of variation in prefered planet type can work but there has to be enough overlap that races still compete over planets.

For example species that evolved  on a gas giant would find solid worlds a very hostile environment and would have little interest in competing for solid worlds at least as living space.

Reply #14 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

It should be possible to 'gain' alien technological advancements by integration/stealing them and then by using 'backward' research methods, gain the required ability - like terraforming alien world types as It has been done in other TS/TB games.

It would be silly not to have this...we are in RL planning to Terraform an alien planet in our solar system in the near future.

Creative 'inspiration' can go along way :blush: