Formations - Proposal for Efficient Tactical Combat

 

There has been a considerable amount of talk about how the combat in GalCiv3 will work.  The combat in GalCiv2 was fairly simple and hands-off, so there are many people who are looking for more depth in the sequel.  There are also people who don't want to get bogged down micromanaging every battle to get the optimal result.  All I've heard from Frogboy on the subject is that they want more focus on assigning ships roles.

While my proposal may not completely satisfy all parties, I believe it does address many of the main concerns.  I present: the formation designer!

 

 (Not a finished product)

I suppose the picture needs a little explanation.  I'll start with the steps it takes to go from ship design to deploying a fleet.  First, in the ship editor, you have the option of assigning a ship to a "role".  You can choose from a list of existing names, or add your own to the list.  By itself, a role is simply a name, used to organize ships.

Next, when you take a fleet into battle, you can choose to use an existing "formation" or design a new one.  If you choose to do the latter, you are sent to the formation design screen, where you can drag boxes to sort your fleet.  In the image above, all ships with the "Rush" role would go in the box in the top-center, all ships with the "Sniper" role would be split evenly between the two boxes at the bottom, and any ships with other role (or with no role) would go in the middle.

However, once your fleet gets sent into battle, the boxes amount to more than just where each ship starts out.  If you but a box to cover the top of the screen, ships assigned to that box will be very aggressive - charging right into the middle of the enemy formation.  Put a box at the bottom of the screen, and ships will be very risk averse - pulling back whenever enemies get close.  Put it in the middle of the screen, and the ships will not hesitate to engage, but will try not to get completely surrounded by enemy ships.  And if you make a box stretching from top to bottom, ships in the box will shift between aggression and caution based on their situation (damaged ships retreat, ships advance to face foes they're good against, etc.).

Let's look at another possible formation in my proposed system:

 

 

Here, you'll notice the box for ships with the "Escort" role overlaps with the box for "Assault"-role ships.  This means that ships in the "Escort" box can move into the some of the same areas as the "Assault" ships, though if the Assault ships assume a position that's as aggressive as you've allowed them to, the Escort ships will never advance that far forward.  On the flipside, the Escort ships can assume positions more cautious than those the Assault ships can, and they can move to the left or right beyond the positions the Assault ships are allowed to go.

Beneath the Hood

Many times, I've referred to ships in a "box" making decisions on where to go (limited by the restrictions you set in the Formation screen).  So what might this entail?  My idea is that each "box" is assigned a decision-making AI.  This AI keeps a running assessment of the total capabilities of the ships inside - their combined DPS, their effectiveness against different kinds of defenses, and their durability against the various weapons the enemy are fielding (and maybe a few other things too).  It will then move the ships assigned to it around to hit the targets they're most effective against, and keep away from ships they're vulnerable to.  It will place a higher emphasis on attacking targets that are doing lots of damage to other ships in the fleet.

The Result

The idea behind this system is that it gives a way for those interested in tactical combat to get involved, while those who aren't that interested can just use a pre-made formation for every battle, and still do well (provided they're keeping up in other areas).   It avoids tedious late game micromanagement - since a battle with throwaway ships would consist of right clicking the enemy fleets, then autoresolving (with the formation your fleet remembered from last time), but for major battles, you have the ability to carefully organize your ships, then watch the fight play out with maneuvers like frontal assaults, protracted kiting, fighter screens, and others, taking place thanks to how your formation was set up.  And, it fits with giving ships specific roles (the only thing we've heard about Stardock's plan for the combat system).

So, think this would work?  Have any improvements or alternatives?  Thanks for reading!

516 views 14 replies
Reply #1 Top

It sounds kind of like now I envisioned the announced ship roles working, except those are likely ore-defined in the game. 

Do you have weapon ranges, or the front ships providing cover, or some mechanism to prevent my entire fleet from shooting your snipers with every weapon I have?

Reply #2 Top

Quoting Tridus, reply 1

It sounds kind of like now I envisioned the announced ship roles working, except those are likely ore-defined in the game. 

Do you have weapon ranges, or the front ships providing cover, or some mechanism to prevent my entire fleet from shooting your snipers with every weapon I have?
End of Tridus's quote

My system does assume weapons will have certain properties like range, accuracy, and effectiveness against different defensive types.  The guiding principles for any weapon properties would be that an AI must be able to make a rough assessment of how good a given ship is against various other ships, and that a human should be able to readily understand how differences in weapon properties would affect their performance in-combat.  I suppose my conceptualization of how this might work draws a bit of inspiration from Gratuitous Space Battles, though a system for GalCiv3 could probably make things a bit simpler than that.

Reply #3 Top

Aren't there supposed to be fleet formations according to ships' characteristics? Not sure how that could be implemented, if again we'll have "big guys shooting first at big guys"...

Reply #4 Top

Noooooo!!!!! Once you open Pandora's box it will never close!

Reply #5 Top

There not opening Pandora's box; they are throwing you a bone.

Reply #6 Top

Come again?

Reply #7 Top

What they said as far as changing combat is that they are going to let you assign ships combat roles, or we can call these preferences like they have on distant worlds. That means you select a ship or type of ship. Then under the selection they already have on galactic civilizations you will have an option for the ship role. We could guess on what this would be on how the ship is going to fight. Then combat is going to play out as normal. I only hope it looks more like endless space version than galactic civilizations two dimensional view. If this is tactics then it is. I don't know.

They have identified that they are going to have all the players moving at the same time. Some people who I hope is not the majority have assumed this to mean real time combat like I've seen in Empire earth or Sins of a solar empire, but considering they been talking about civilization which I think is a decent move I think they mean also like civilization where all the players move at the same time on each turn requiring you to end the turn.

I don't want real time. You guys wont settle for turn based tactics. Stardock wont settle for tactics. I'm not sure about tactics. I know I don't want galactic civilizations to turn into real time strategy. It's the kind of complex game it is. Stardock is planning to step up real time strategy probably in sins of a solar empire with oxide why aren't you guys not trying to reform that game instead of turning Galactic civilizations into something the fans that I hope are the majority don't want. Sins of a solar empire is based on galactic civilizations.

Reply #8 Top

Quoting admiralWillyWilber, reply 7
They have identified that they are going to have all the players moving at the same time.
End of admiralWillyWilber's quote

Where? I don't remember any post from the devs about this.

Reply #9 Top

I forgot it's been awhile back they were going to do something like simutanus moves. Everyone had incorrectly took that to mean real time strategy, but from the interviews and playing call to power, civilization 3 and 4. I learned that means something else.

Reply #10 Top

"Simultaneous turns" is a multiplayer thing, where in a MP game everyone takes their turn at the same time. It can create some "first to click wins" problems in competitive games, but in a coop game it MASSIVELY speeds the game up. It means that if we're playing together, we can both act at the same time (Endless Space does this). The other method is sequential turns, where when it's my turn you can't do anything except wait (Shogun 2 does this).

That's at the strategy layer, it has no bearing on combat at all.

Reply #11 Top

Quoting DARCA1213, reply 6

Come again?
End of DARCA1213's quote

"WE'VE BEEN FLANKED! REQUEST FIRE MISSION AT THESE COORDINATES!"

 

Quoting admiralWillyWilber, reply 7
You guys wont settle for turn based tactics.
End of admiralWillyWilber's quote

I will, but I'd prefer another game, focused on tactics.

Reply #12 Top

Quoting Tridus, reply 10


That's at the strategy layer, it has no bearing on combat at all.
End of Tridus's quote

It's in reply 7. Actually you will be able to give your ship types fighting style when you make them probably in the ship yard. I hope they will give me a way to change this for individual ships. The Ai will build the player designs. The actual combat will be automated. We know this will be none thing like Masters of Orion. This is what the Devs have hinted at. This is what you guys have been celebrating enjoy. If this is what you want great have fun. There is probably none thing else.

Reply #13 Top

Quoting admiralWillyWilber, reply 12


Quoting Tridus, reply 10

That's at the strategy layer, it has no bearing on combat at all.

It's in reply 7. Actually you will be able to give your ship types fighting style when you make them probably in the ship yard. I hope they will give me a way to change this for individual ships. The Ai will build the player designs. The actual combat will be automated. We know this will be none thing like Masters of Orion. This is what the Devs have hinted at. This is what you guys have been celebrating enjoy. If this is what you want great have fun. There is probably none thing else.
End of admiralWillyWilber's quote

Which is in no way relevant to if "simultaneous turns" are being used or not.

Reply #14 Top

Must of been the many forums running together. Maybe the fact that I needed to go to sleep. I thought that you said something else.