Some Random inside GalCiv III talk

from GalCiv3 Forums

Just want to give you guys some news that isn't really that spoilery and is way way too technical for the marketing team to care about.

AI

Technically speaking, FE: LH is probably the first multi-core AI.  But the GalCiv III AI is likely to be the first AI designed from scratch for multicore.  

What that means to you: I can run background simulations that last multiple turns.  I did this some in GalCiv II but late game, I had to disable them (I put in a setting in Twilight to allow people to set how much CPU to use for the AI which affected this).

Also, some AI calculations are going to be off-loaded onto your video card (just the hard number crunching stuff).

The reason for that is that unlike GalCiv II where the main evaluations only involved weapon types, GalCiv III has sublight speed, mass, rate of fire, weapons range, accuracy and evasion to deal with along with the roles of ships in a fleet.  So lots more number crunching than before but with DirectX 10/11 I can toss that onto the video card to deal with.

Steamworks

I don't plan to have the AI design ships in GalCiv III in the sense it did in GalCiv II.  I will give it a bit of a try but the ships have a lot more sophistication to them this time (very easy for a human but much harder for a computer, traveling salesmen problem here).  Instead, I am planning to have the AI look at every ship design any player has ever designed and do evaluation on that and pick from that.  So the better players get at designing ships, the better the AI will get.  While this might seem like "a lot" of ships, let's assume there are 15 million ship designs in the database.  I can narrow that down to a few hundred thousands for my purposes. That might seem like a lot but it is a lot fewer than the AI doing tons of permutations on the fly.

Right now, the above is theory as I haven't done this yet.  But in GalCiv II, I really only had to worry about weapons and defenses.  GalCiv III has more goodies you can put on a ship.

Multiplayer

We are not making any promises for MP to be "fun".  I am skeptical on whether 4X MP can be fun outside of very small galaxies. But the alpha will have multiplayer in it (it's not going to be a feature that comes late, it's already in now in our builds).   I do think that 2 vs. AI might be fun. It'll be interesting to see how this works out.

 

8,983 views 41 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

OMG,,, Rate of FIRE and Weapons ranges..I can already see this is going to be AWESOME!

 

Thanks for the info Brad!

Reply #2 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

It sounds a lot like TSR's "Star Frontiers" board game (had TSR remained in business and taken Star Frontiers...  But they didn't do either...).

 

SK

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Reply #3 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Finally it is possible we could get a Galciv without shit combat.

Reply #4 from GalCiv3 Forums Top


We are not making any promises for MP to be "fun".  I am skeptical on whether 4X MP can be fun outside of very small galaxies. But the alpha will have multiplayer in it (it's not going to be a feature that comes late, it's already in now in our builds).   I do think that 2 vs. AI might be fun. It'll be interesting to see how this works out.
End of quote

Coop (2 vs AI) is how I played a ton of Civ IV, V, Endless Space, Shogun 2 (there's a MP campaign mode just for that), and a few others. It's a lot of fun.

Reply #5 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

GalCiv III has sublight speed, mass, rate of fire, weapons range, accuracy and evasion to deal with along with the roles of ships in a fleet.
End of quote

On the one hand, I'm intrigued by these news, but on the other hand, I'm also a bit worried. I'll try to refrain from judging, until I learn how combat will actually work.

Reply #6 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

We are not making any promises for MP to be "fun".  I am skeptical on whether 4X MP can be fun outside of very small galaxies.
End of quote

 

^Truth!

Reply #7 from GalCiv3 Forums Top


 
 GalCiv III has more goodies you can put on a ship.

 
End of quote

 

Goodies OOOOO what kind of goodies have been added?

 

Also I am really looking forward to a Large scale MP Game and am glad to hear it will be in the Alpha

Reply #8 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I'm hoping we'll get powerplants for ships.

And no more sensor range without a sensor module installed!

Reply #9 from GalCiv3 Forums Top


The reason for that is that unlike GalCiv II where the main evaluations only involved weapon types, GalCiv III has sublight speed, mass, rate of fire, weapons range, accuracy and evasion to deal with along with the roles of ships in a fleet.
End of quote

 

My heart stopped beating for a moment.

 

Is this what you meant about battles having "Some" tactics in them? By balancing ship traits?

Reply #10 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Will ships have variable morale?  It doesn't have to be a complicated/localised thing like in 'total war'.  Maybe just some races, as a whole, are braver than others.  

But I can imagine a fleet order to break formation would increase overall rate-of-fire but decrease resilience because your forces will be more spread out and not watching each others' 6.  So if enemy reinforcements arrive you're in trouble, but if you kill the scouts before they arrive then you've killed a bunch of scouts for zero casualties, if you can then evade the main fleet.

Reply #11 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

4X can absolutely be fun multiplayer. People should stop dismissing it - any game (especially 4X) is much more fun to play with a friend along for the ride. Teaming up against the AI is the only way I play Civ5. I find it empty without another human in the same world.

Reply #12 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I love the sound of expanded ship options. I love it a lot.

 

Reply #14 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Instead, I am planning to have the AI look at every ship design any player has ever designed and do evaluation on that and pick from that.  So the better players get at designing ships, the better the AI will get.
End of quote

This is an interesting approach, it might help avoiding the AI questionable design choices I see often times (very slow ships across the board, poor choice of defense modules, etc...). Looking forward to seeing it at work in the Alpha

 

Slightly OT: I am wondering if it could work also for tech tree research ... keeping track of the player's research paths and learning from that ... just rambling

Reply #15 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Instead, I am planning to have the AI look at every ship design any player has ever designed and do evaluation on that and pick from that.  So the better players get at designing ships, the better the AI will get.  While this might seem like "a lot" of ships, let's assume there are 15 million ship designs in the database.  I can narrow that down to a few hundred thousands for my purposes. That might seem like a lot but it is a lot fewer than the AI doing tons of permutations on the fly.
End of quote

 

This sounds very cool, but would it mean AI would not work without internet connection? Or would the database be local?

I would not mind always online requirement at all if it actually has such a good reason (and not just DRM), but I think this should be clarified.

Reply #16 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting ShotmanMaslo, reply 15
but I think this should be clarified.
End of ShotmanMaslo's quote

It already has been clarified:

Q: Will the game require a network connection to play?
A: No. However, some of the AI learning mechanisms will require access to the Metaverse in order to perform analysis on player strategies. This will be optional and able to be disabled by the player but does require an Internet connection.

 

 

Reply #17 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Does that mean ships I design might end up in somebody else's game? Sounds intriguing. 

Reply #19 from LittleTinyFrogs Forums Top

I am skeptical on whether 4X MP can be fun outside of very small galaxies. But the alpha will have multiplayer in it (it's not going to be a feature that comes late, it's already in now in our builds). I do think that 2 vs. AI might be fun. It'll be interesting to see how this works out.
End of quote

Just wanted to chime in and say that I've played hundreds of hours of Civ V and Civ IV and most of those were coop with my girlfriend or a friend in teams of 2v2v2vMORETWOS or 3v3v3vMORETHREES. It's generally a less hardcore and less difficult way to play but overall I find it more fun to work together with my friends even if the game changes somewhat.

This is one of the chief reasons I am very excited for GalCiv 3, though in general the game looks great and I very much liked the prior two.

Reply #20 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Actually I thought the idea was working with the person who was playing on the computer, but the online idea is good to. You could make an option to download this from the internet to. This would make for multiplayer. This could be expanded not just for tech research, but also the units on the planets to, but this does have to be able to be modified by the type of stuff not necessary the exact stuff so this can work on different tech trees.

Reply #21 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I don't plan to have the AI design ships in GalCiv III in the sense it did in GalCiv II.  I will give it a bit of a try but the ships have a lot more sophistication to them this time (very easy for a human but much harder for a computer, traveling salesmen problem here).  Instead, I am planning to have the AI look at every ship design any player has ever designed and do evaluation on that and pick from that.  So the better players get at designing ships, the better the AI will get.  While this might seem like "a lot" of ships, let's assume there are 15 million ship designs in the database.  I can narrow that down to a few hundred thousands for my purposes. That might seem like a lot but it is a lot fewer than the AI doing tons of permutations on the fly.

End of quote

I assume you would want to narrow it down further and focus on emulating the top couple of players for each race.  I'm not sure what you would do with a few hundred thousand designs, other than dilute the integrated strategy of a top player.

 

Reply #22 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting Surge72, reply 11

4X can absolutely be fun multiplayer. People should stop dismissing it - any game (especially 4X) is much more fun to play with a friend along for the ride. Teaming up against the AI is the only way I play Civ5. I find it empty without another human in the same world.
End of Surge72's quote

I don't think this is dismissing multiplayer, but you do have to consider the focus to work on. It is basically saying that games have to focus either on multiplayer or single player, and since to date most of the players are from single player is that it would not make sense not to cater to your single player fan based. Even with this logic it does seem they are going to make a nice multiplayer game, and you really can't beat what hotseat is for.

 

Reply #23 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Range and weapon speed, I guess this is mission accomplished, I had a suggestion based on fire rates and weapon speeds :D

Not only me but many of us have been asking for some sort of combat enhancement.

 

Getting these factors in the game is one thing but actually coming up with weapon tech for all of them is a whole another story.

Reply #24 from GalCiv3 Forums Top
Quoting Achronous, reply 17

Does that mean ships I design might end up in somebody else's game? Sounds intriguing. 

End of Achronous's quote

 

 

This is exactly what it means. The same type of feature is in SPORE and I often see other players and the AI using my designs. Its actually pretty cool when you have your fleets and low an behold your supra ship of doom from a previous game is now on the other side of the battle line. I was like what?...oh crap those things are tough!

Reply #25 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

I was going to mention Spore, but it doesn't deserve to be mentioned here or compared to GalCiv  :typo: