GCIII New ship component

Information from IGN http://ca.ign.com/articles/2013/10/15/stardocks-galactic-civilizations-3-revealed

"He compares the new customization system to LEGO, but the pieces you’re connecting have an effect that goes beyond the cosmetic effect." -IGN

If this is true, then we must start with ship component ideas on this forum, I been reading too many post that says do this better or do that better, we need more specific ideas that actually mean something other then saying something needs improvement.

 

EX. My first idea is that a hanger bay would be a new ship component that can contain 3 classes of fighters.

Laser fighters

Gun fighters

Missile fighters

each fighter has a strength of 1 depending on the class, and they work together as a team. So lets say the smallest hanger holds 5 fighters for example. The maximum potential of this hanger is about 5 damage depending of what fighters the player chooses.

ex. 5 laser fighters would yield lasers (duh), so that has 5 beam weapons strength

You even have the option of mixing it up a bit, for example

ex.2 2 mass driver fighters + 3 Missile fighters

The mass drivers would be effective against ships with no armor while the 3 missiles would pack a punch if the ship doesn't have missile defenses.

Over time the tech tree would unlock better hangers for bigger and bigger ships, and some super hangers for only the largest of ships.

One last feature of a fighter fleet is that if you have a fleet adjacent to a ship with a hanger bay, chances are that the fighters will help the adjacent fleet in battle. This may bring some interesting tactics to the table and ultimately is far superior then anybody who says "make _____ better"

Thank you for your time and consideration.

64,608 views 30 replies
Reply #1 Top

been asked for already and shot down.

Reply #2 Top

why would you want to shoot this down, the ships would still meet the rock paper scissors formula and you don't want any progression, why does GCII have so many video clips of fighters and yet they are not including those fighters in the 3rd generation. Where is the innovation if you cannot even add simple fighters.

 

Reply #3 Top

Like honestly would you just want a a empty space grid or hex grid and have which numbers are better win all the time, space should be interesting and there should be advantages and disadvantages of having fighters. Or are you people so lazy at designing the game that you cannot even add 1 or multiple ship components to take down fighters...

 

Reply #4 Top

If this is true, then we must start with ship component ideas on this forum, I been reading too many post that says do this better or do that better, we need more specific ideas that actually mean something other then saying something needs improvement.
End of quote

I think that saying "<<such and such>> needs improvement" should be OK. Stating that something "feels like it is lacking somehow but I can't define what it is" can be a wonderful springboard for discussions leading to great ideas.

Reply #5 Top

good to hear it Lucky Jack... I do find the space combat lacking, that is why I had a thread with hyper drive assisted long range missiles to the table, but that is another thread for another time.

Reply #6 Top

I think the biggest issue in gal civ 2 in regards to fighters, was that you could build you own 'fighters' by using the smallest parts, but there was no point. The combat simulation didn't take ship maneuverability into account. So, a massive battle cruiser with a giant cannon, could blow away a bazillion fighters, despite the fact that in reality, the fighters would move so fast that a large ship would have difficulty hitting them with a gun the size of an asteroid. 

This is basically the equivalent of the death star, being able to destroy an x-wing with it's planet cannon. In reality, the larger the gun, the less accurate it is (usually).... galciv 2 never looked at that. Although sins of a solar empire rebellion does somewhat. Hopefully this will be fixed in 3.

Reply #7 Top

Well, I am just saying it would make more sense if we had fighters as the smallest vessels, lack of maneuverability is probably why I disliked the combat despite rock paper scissors being a good combat formula to start with. Maybe this ship component wasn't the answer to begin with and should be redone... maybe they should introduce a rock paper scissors formula to all ship sizes, swarms fighters are good against big honking space destroyer, the big honking space destroyer is good against mid sized vessels while the mid size vessels are effective against smaller ships and the smaller ships are good against fighters. The smaller the ship, the lower the probability of the big honking space vessel actually striking depending of what kind of weapons are put on that big honking space destroyer.

Imagine this, it would be outright stupid to have a super death laser directed at one individual fighter, possibly that could be the downside to beam weapons. The black hole gun and missile however would be more effective against those smaller vessels. Then who would want a stinking death laser if the game stayed true to the fact that most decent players would have swarms of fighters.

Reply #8 Top

How the f would a rock paper scissors on top of a rock paper scissors formula would work? I would need to create a new forum topic covering this issue I have with the combat system.

Reply #9 Top

Quoting jrdufour, reply 6
I think the biggest issue in gal civ 2 in regards to fighters, was that you could build you own 'fighters' by using the smallest parts, but there was no point. The combat simulation didn't take ship maneuverability into account. So, a massive battle cruiser with a giant cannon, could blow away a bazillion fighters, despite the fact that in reality, the fighters would move so fast that a large ship would have difficulty hitting them with a gun the size of an asteroid. 

This is basically the equivalent of the death star, being able to destroy an x-wing with it's planet cannon. In reality, the larger the gun, the less accurate it is (usually).... galciv 2 never looked at that. Although sins of a solar empire rebellion does somewhat. Hopefully this will be fixed in 3.
End of jrdufour's quote

Part of this is the modular nature of the weapons. There weren't any Death Star sized ship-to-ship weapons, there were multiple banks of small to medium sized weapons. Think instead how likely the Enterprise was to miss a passing shuttle with its phasor banks at close range.

Instead of the GC2 RPS of guns/missiles/beams and their defenses, we could go to a system where different weapon systems work better on different hull types. I suggested something like this years ago for Twilight, so I doubt it will go very far now, either. For example:

Beams are weak, topping out at well below the power of the other systems - but can track tiny hulls really well. As the target gets bigger, there is no accuracy penalty but the damage becomes insufficient to make a good ship. Maybe 5 damage is the top weapon available. Pretty much ineffective above medium-hull targets.

Missiles are good for targeting medium range hulls. They still top out below guns in terms of power, but are better than beams. Maybe 10 damage at maximum. They suffer small accuracy penalties against small hulls and moderate penalties against tiny hulls. Partially effective against large and huge hulls.

Guns are for busting big ships. Massive damage, maybe 15-20 at the high end, but suffer accuracy penalties the smaller a hull gets. Something like 95% hit rate against large hulls, 80% for medium, 50% for small, 15% for tiny.

No restrictions as to which hulls can mount which type of weapons, but hull size would limit how many weapons of any type you could mount. A tiny hull could mount a single gun and maybe some shields to protect itself, or a single missile launcher and more shields, or a couple beams and even more shields for fighter-on-fighter fights. Medium hulls could mount 2-3 guns for ganging up on bigger ships, or missiles for taking out other mediums, or lots of beams to take on the anti-fighter role. Huge hulls would likely mount mostly guns to take on other huge hulls, but with enough missiles and/or beams to make swarming them difficult.

Defenses would retain the off-type capacity, but would be more specialized to the hull size to be protected rather than the enemy weapon system - the enemy weapons are going to be chosen to reflect your hull size not your defenses anyway. Tiny ships would have shields, since the biggest threat is beams and they couldn't carry enough PD or armor to matter against the likely hits anyway. Medium hulls would carry PD since they are most likely to be taking missile fire; enough laser fire could hurt them but it would be minor hits adding up rather than a single knockout hit. Huge ships would have armor for the same reason. Missiles and beams just can't hand out the hurt fast enough to matter to a battleship, so they'd be protected against the weapons that *could* hurt them quickly.

The usefulness of off-type defense would increase with hull size. Tiny fighters would have no use for armor; no amount they could carry would help much if they got hit anyway. PD might matter a bit more for small hulls, but they are also vulnerable to beams so some balance might be necessary. Mediums have the same problem with not being able to carry a practical amount of armor, but need PD more than shields. Large hulls would need a balance between armor and PD, but don't have to worry much about shields. Huge hulls would be mostly armor with enough PD and maybe even shields to prevent death-by-a-thousand-cuts from M-S-T hulls they aren't really equipped to fight.

You get the same basic RPS gameplay, but with hull sizes as a lesser determinant for weapons. Balanced ships, or fleets, would be required to fight anything but a single-type enemy. If all the enemy has is tiny fighters, a huge hull with good defense and lots of lasers would swat them like flies for little to no damage. That same ship would be suicidally underequipped for dealing with a proper gun-armed huge hull - think trying to sink the Yamato with only anti-aircraft guns. It might do some cosmetic damage, but you'll get massacred while doing that cosmetic damage. Gun armed fighters would work well against improperly equipped and unescorted huge hulls, but would be another massacre if faced with a swarm of beam-armed fighters.

Reply #10 Top

I don't think we need anything as crazy as a rock-paper-scissors squared system. All you would need is a hit to miss function with the attacking ship size, and defending ship size as inputs, or possibly use the size of the firing gun, as large ships can have small fighter defence weapons (again, Sins of a solar empire: rebellion does this)

For example: Defender_Size/(attacker_size and/or gun_size)=CTH    

With that formula, the larger the defender, the larger the CTH (chance to hit) is, the smaller the attacker and/or gun, the higher the CTH is; and visa-versa. This wouldn't be the end-all formula, as other factors would probably influence it such as tech level or targeting computers on the ship. But basicaly this factor simply needs to be calculated when a ship fires.

Still, a low CTH wouldn't mean you miss the target completely, you might 'miss' where you are aiming for, but still hit the target; resulting in lower damage (or if a more complex system is in place, damage to a subsystem other then what was targeted). Obviously, this change of a 'near-miss' or 'miss-hit' would again depend on the targets size, relative to the gun. being off by 5% when shooting at a, relatively, small target would be a complete miss; against a large target, maybe you shoot the engines instead of the weapons, or a more armored spot causing less damage.

 EDIT:

Quoting WIllythemailboy, reply 9

Part of this is the modular nature of the weapons. There weren't any Death Star sized ship-to-ship weapons, there were multiple banks of small to medium sized weapons. Think instead how likely the Enterprise was to miss a passing shuttle with its phasor banks at close range.
End of WIllythemailboy's quote

 

I do somewhat agree with that, but the combat systems math, pooled all weapons of the same type together, so it was kinda how it worked. Even if they were treated as separate weapons, on a larger ship the weapons would have a reduced firing arc, meaning that a gun would need a faster response time to hit a target for the short amount of time it was in range.

You do make some interesting points, what I actually suggest will depend on how the combat system is in the alpha, once I get my hands on it. It's un-likely that the whole combat system can be re-made at that point, so it will mainly depend on how it's done.

The only bone I have to pick, is you saying that missiles are weaker then guns. Typically, Missiles are always the most powerful in terms of destructive power, since you can basically put any destructive substance/weapon at the tip that you want; although the easiest to defend against, because they ted to be large and easy to shoot down.

Reply #11 Top

I am kind of wondering why he would say mass drivers would do the most damage. apparently I would say the missiles would do the most damage too. Maybe it is best we leave this discussion for another time. Information is so scarce right now on the actual game that it hasn't even made the alpha yet.

Reply #12 Top

Quoting Tyrantissar, reply 11

I am kind of wondering why he would say mass drivers would do the most damage. apparently I would say the missiles would do the most damage too. Maybe it is best we leave this discussion for another time. Information is so scarce right now on the actual game that it hasn't even made the alpha yet.
End of Tyrantissar's quote

Perhaps reflecting back to GC2 will help. Weapons were divided into three classes, 1) Energy (or Beam), 2) Missiles (self propelled packets of explosives), and 3) Mass Drivers (not my favorite name for them. I think of them as projectiles of the non-self propelled variety). As to what class would do the most damage, I would be highly challenged to provide an answer. Certainly, a projectile traveling at .8 c would create massive damage. And a missile with a huge highly explosive package would also be quite devastating. And an energy beam might penetrate into vital parts of the target ship more easily than the other two classes, causing the component hit to add it's fury to the damage.

I think there was no attempt in GC1/2 to attribute more damage capacity of one weapon class over another. Instead, what I saw was an attempt to make choosing different weapon/defense combinations important. If you had a ship that had projectile weapons and beam defenses and the enemy ship had missiles and armor, your ship would be more vulnerable than the enemy ship. The smaller hull sizes in GC1/2 tended to make it necessary to make deliberate choices about your weapon/defense mix. Your ship just about had to be based on the largest hull size before you could put all three classes of weapons and defense modules on it.

Reply #13 Top

Quoting Lucky, reply 12


Quoting Tyrantissar, reply 11
I am kind of wondering why he would say mass drivers would do the most damage. apparently I would say the missiles would do the most damage too. Maybe it is best we leave this discussion for another time. Information is so scarce right now on the actual game that it hasn't even made the alpha yet.

Perhaps reflecting back to GC2 will help. Weapons were divided into three classes, 1) Energy (or Beam), 2) Missiles (self propelled packets of explosives), and 3) Mass Drivers (not my favorite name for them. I think of them as projectiles of the non-self propelled variety). As to what class would do the most damage, I would be highly challenged to provide an answer. Certainly, a projectile traveling at .8 c would create massive damage. And a missile with a huge highly explosive package would also be quite devastating. And an energy beam might penetrate into vital parts of the target ship more easily than the other two classes, causing the component hit to add it's fury to the damage.

I think there was no attempt in GC1/2 to attribute more damage capacity of one weapon class over another. Instead, what I saw was an attempt to make choosing different weapon/defense combinations important. If you had a ship that had projectile weapons and beam defenses and the enemy ship had missiles and armor, your ship would be more vulnerable than the enemy ship. The smaller hull sizes in GC1/2 tended to make it necessary to make deliberate choices about your weapon/defense mix. Your ship just about had to be based on the largest hull size before you could put all three classes of weapons and defense modules on it.
End of Lucky's quote

 

I believe that GC2 tried to say that missiles caused the most damage, and that they were easy to defend against; I think they atempted to implement this by making missiles and Point defence the shortest/cheapest to fully research on the tech tree.

Reply #14 Top

Quoting jrdufour, reply 10
I do somewhat agree with that, but the combat systems math, pooled all weapons of the same type together, so it was kinda how it worked. Even if they were treated as separate weapons, on a larger ship the weapons would have a reduced firing arc, meaning that a gun would need a faster response time to hit a target for the short amount of time it was in range.
End of jrdufour's quote

That hasn't been true since Dread Lords. Possibly Dark Avatar, but I don't think so. I know for sure that weapons fire separately in Twilight.

Quoting jrdufour, reply 10
The only bone I have to pick, is you saying that missiles are weaker then guns. Typically, Missiles are always the most powerful in terms of destructive power, since you can basically put any destructive substance/weapon at the tip that you want; although the easiest to defend against, because they ted to be large and easy to shoot down.
End of jrdufour's quote

Well, the lore doesn't allow nukes. Presumably antimatter or other conversion weapons would be out as well.

But really, I did it for practical reasons. Lasers are the hardest to block, since they're speed of light weapons. You can't see that it has fired until it hits you. Just the thing to hit elusive miniature targets. Missiles can track on the target, but can still be dodged by a sufficiently evasive target so they are good at hitting medium size targets. Guns just get the heavy weapon slot by default; although it makes sense that they're the easiest to dodge (since they're enough slower than light to be dodged and can't track like missiles). Add to that armor, which pretty much has to be BIG to be effective. Unlike a shield generator or point defense battery, armor has to cover the whole ship to be effective.

Reply #15 Top

One of the things I found lacking in GC2 was the actual weapon progression.  You go from Lasers to Phasors with a fairly lacklustre improvement in firepower and marginal improvements in space efficiency and then suddenly woosh, you have a Death Doom Ray.  Just this weekend I spreadsheeted most of the weapons to look again at how much damage you get per bc and unit of space.

It's not always worth it to upgrade a ship to the latest weapon tech you researched in GC2 because the savings in space between generations is vanishingly small or non-existent.

Reply #16 Top

As far as how these weapons systems are applied today.

Mass Drivers (Bullets) distribute kinetic energy directly to the target. Damage (to non soft targets) is directly tied to mass of projectile and velocity of projectile.

Missles (Rockets, exploding self propelled projectiles) cause damage based on the impact of shrapnel impacting and damaging the opponent. Very rarely does the missile impact the opponent, normally they will detonate near the target and render it inoperable by cutting up its operating systems.

Lasers work by ablating the surface and aren't exactly tied to the typical scifi stereotype of red beams burning perfect holes in things. Energy based weapons systems could scale from plasma cutting, to microwaves, to binding photons together and making lightsabers.

 

As such Mass Drivers should do the most damage but have the lowest hit chance, missles (depending on what tech) should run middle of the road in both respects and likely could be the most versatile. Lasers would be the weakest and lowest hit chance over distance but would become almost too powerful late game.

 

Assuming that the game wants to base itself off of my opinion!

Reply #17 Top

Well, lasers are accuracy weapons, light cannot bend and it travels the fastest. Also ever heard of the nuclear missile, a mass driver would be a over sized  gun. what do you think would be the most devastating?

What about the fact that some weapons are more effective against smaller vessels?

For example lets say I had a doom ray, and a bunch of disruptor. Don't you find it downright stupid to if they wasted a doom ray on a fighter, that would be downright stupid because the weapon would generally have a large cool down. However the disruptor sounds more effect against large groups of small ships, which it would be more desirable if each weapon you get had a good side and a bad side.

For example lasers are an early game weapon and generally are effective vs. smaller vessels because they are generally weak according to their description in GalCiv II. Also they have decent cool down so you don't have to use them sparingly, even if the mirrors burns out because those can be replaced with ease considering that every ship has a maintenance cost.

Plasma weapons would be deadly, but like they said it has mass thus it must be generally slow and easy to avoid (I believe that plasma weapons would also require mass driver tech of some type as well)

Then you got the all mighty doom lasers, which would have a ridiculously long cool down time, which it would generally be stupid against a fleet of smaller ships or fighters

Reply #18 Top

I think you're going to like what we're doing. :)

Reply #19 Top

Accuracy weapons yes, and it does travel fast. However any dust particles or really anything between point a and point b and the destructive power decreases significantly. Keep in mind that photons do have mass, just an incredibly small amount of it.

Oversized gun is quite the disparaging way to look at it. Keep in mind that meteors and asteroids are mass drivers. The projectile doesn't even have to be large it just has to be dense. A teaspoon of matter from a neutron star accelerated to 1/1000 of the speed of light is a level of destruction even our most powerful nuclear weapons are incapable of. A meteor the size of a softball impacting the Earth is equivalent to the bomb dropped on Hiroshima.

Not to mention that a Nuclear missile unless it was under the skin of the spacecraft or impact fused. The high amounts of radiation, heat, and the pressure wave produced by a nuke wouldn't be as effective as pop scifi leads us to believe. The radiation and heat is something that any spacefaring race would already build into their ships to counteract the radiation and heat given off by the stars. Pressure would be negligible because in space there is very little to move around. In atmosphere the air from around the initial blast zone gets forcefully pushed against more air and this is repeated until a vacuum is formed and the empty void created by the explosive collapses and all that displaced air forcefully rushes back to fill the void. This happens on all high explosives (including nukes), however in space everything is already in void (there are particles and debris floating around but not nearly dense enough to be effective at transmitting explosive force.

The most effective use for a missile would be detonating close to the spacecraft for fragmentation purposes, fuse the missile for impact detonation (more effective as fragmentation but much less accurate), fuse for penetration to cause the missile to break through the skin of the spacecraft and detonate once inside (more effective than fragmentation but it requires a penetrator warhead and some pretty accurate sensor equipment).

Not trying to downplay lasers or any of that technology but they really to have the cheapest defense. One pound of granulated aluminum dispersed into a cloud between attacking ship and defending ship would be an almost perfect defense, this is called Chaff and is something that every Air Force (world wide) currently uses so the technology is well researched and would be very cheap by the time we're traversing the galaxy. 

Reply #20 Top

Quoting Frogboy, reply 18

I think you're going to like what we're doing.
End of Frogboy's quote

oh you're such a tease!  :grin:

 

Quoting Aeraellien, reply 19

Oversized gun is quite the disparaging way to look at it. Keep in mind that meteors and asteroids are mass drivers. The projectile doesn't even have to be large it just has to be dense. A teaspoon of matter from a neutron star accelerated to 1/1000 of the speed of light is a level of destruction even our most powerful nuclear weapons are incapable of. A meteor the size of a softball impacting the Earth is equivalent to the bomb dropped on Hiroshima.
End of Aeraellien's quote

I agree, as (you may know if you've had physics) kinetic energy (aka damage in the case of an impact) is a function of (velocity/2)*mass^2
So a lot of mass can make a VERY damaging weapon.

But I think the biggest issue with kinetic weapons is that the ship firing the weapon is exposed to the same kinetic energy; while this force is spread out over a longer time then an impact typically is, and the ship is built to structurally handle this force without falling apart, the big issue is that this can 'move'' the ship. So while firing a solid block of neutron star might cause a lot of damage to the enemy, it could cause your ship to spin out of control, or push you somewhere you don't want to go. So it sort of puts a cap on how large of a bullet you can fire from your ship, simply for practicality. You COULD put a ton of engines or thrusters in place to counter this; or fire opposite weapons at opposite angles to cancel the force out. But it's just not practical.
Also carting around a lot of ammunition that is super heavy, could significantly reduce your ships gas millage :P

 

Quoting Aeraellien, reply 19

Not trying to downplay lasers or any of that technology but they really to have the cheapest defense. One pound of granulated aluminum dispersed into a cloud between attacking ship and defending ship would be an almost perfect defense, this is called Chaff and is something that every Air Force (world wide) currently uses so the technology is well researched and would be very cheap by the time we're traversing the galaxy. 
End of Aeraellien's quote

I think this defence method would have varying results. I think the biggest issue is that in space, there is no atmosphere or other force to slow down the chaff. So it would only stay where you want it for a very short time, dispersing fairly rapidly. So you would go through it fairly quickly; and the person shooting at you could just fly around the cloud of dust.
Another thing is that in the case of very high powered energy weapons, the chaff could simply be vaporized.

Chaff is more useful for confusing guidance systems for misses. The crudest form is just bits of tinfoil to confuse a radar system, or flairs to confuse thermal tracking. But I assume in our futuristic system, that chaff would be bits of electronics that give off energy signals and ECM to confuse missiles into targeting them and not the ship.

Reply #21 Top

Quoting Tyrantissar, reply 17

Well, lasers are accuracy weapons, light cannot bend and it travels the fastest. Also ever heard of the nuclear missile, a mass driver would be a over sized  gun. what do you think would be the most devastating?

End of Tyrantissar's quote

 

Actually, light does bend from gravity.  Nuclear explosions do very little in the vacuum of space with no atmosphere to carry a shockwave.  A railgun or mass driver would both be quite devastating.

Reply #22 Top

Quoting Chibiabos, reply 21

Actually, light does bend from gravity.  Nuclear explosions do very little in the vacuum of space with no atmosphere to carry a shockwave.  A railgun or mass driver would both be quite devastating.
End of Chibiabos's quote

I also though of that, but I don't know that gravity will play a huge roll in the distances that a space battle will take place. Also, the gravity effect is fairly easy to calculate and compensate for.

Any explosive won't do much in terms of shockwave damage. But actual the biggest enemy in space is heat. If the surface of your ship gets heated up, there is no easy way to cool it down. Since space is a vacuum, there is no air to conduct heat away from your ship. An explosion only needs to heat, or release radiation that heats, your ships hull up, fracturing it from heat stress.

Personally I'm thinking of missiles armed with more exotic warheads including, but not limited to: Antimatter, Fusion/fission of exotic materials that release massive amounts of neutron (or other high energy and hard to block radiation) in a directed burst through the ship, corrosive or otherwise reactive goo/fluid that eats away the hull, payload of nanites that will deconstruct your ships armor at a molecular level (or cause other mischief, i.e. engine/weapon catastrophic failure aka BOOM!), ect....
Everyone seems to be focused on what makes a weapon effective on Earth (esp. kinetic shockwaves carried by atmosphere); but space provides a different set of conditions that can be exploited.

Reply #23 Top

Quoting Aeraellien, reply 19
Keep in mind that meteors and asteroids are mass drivers.
End of Aeraellien's quote

Actually, the mechanism that shoots meteors and asteroids are the mass drivers.

Reply #24 Top

Quoting Lucky, reply 23


Quoting Aeraellien, reply 19Keep in mind that meteors and asteroids are mass drivers.

Actually, the mechanism that shoots meteors and asteroids are the mass drivers.
End of Lucky's quote

Fair point, I should have said. keep in mind that meteors and asteroids provide the same effect as mass drivers. Sorry for the confusion.

 

Quoting jrdufour, reply 20
But I think the biggest issue with kinetic weapons is that the ship firing the weapon is exposed to the same kinetic energy; while this force is spread out over a longer time then an impact typically is, and the ship is built to structurally handle this force without falling apart, the big issue is that this can 'move'' the ship. So while firing a solid block of neutron star might cause a lot of damage to the enemy, it could cause your ship to spin out of control, or push you somewhere you don't want to go. So it sort of puts a cap on how large of a bullet you can fire from your ship, simply for practicality. You COULD put a ton of engines or thrusters in place to counter this; or fire opposite weapons at opposite angles to cancel the force out. But it's just not practical.
End of jrdufour's quote

Have we considered the likely hood of a magazine full of neutron star projectiles would negate the launching of a single neutron star projectile? I don't really want to star imagining the logistics of transporting ammunition that dense around a ship but assuming that you could "mine" a neutron star you would have the technology to mitigate the overwhelming amount of mass being displaced on your very advanced tin can.

Quoting jrdufour, reply 20
Also carting around a lot of ammunition that is super heavy, could significantly reduce your ships gas millage 
End of jrdufour's quote

Agreed, I can't imagine how slow the vessel would be to get up to speed and to slow down without breaking its own back. Perhaps a system that bends time space around the vessel?

Quoting jrdufour, reply 20
I think this defence method would have varying results. I think the biggest issue is that in space, there is no atmosphere or other force to slow down the chaff. So it would only stay where you want it for a very short time, dispersing fairly rapidly. So you would go through it fairly quickly; and the person shooting at you could just fly around the cloud of dust.

Another thing is that in the case of very high powered energy weapons, the chaff could simply be vaporized.

Chaff is more useful for confusing guidance systems for misses. The crudest form is just bits of tinfoil to confuse a radar system, or flairs to confuse thermal tracking. But I assume in our futuristic system, that chaff would be bits of electronics that give off energy signals and ECM to confuse missiles into targeting them and not the ship.

End of jrdufour's quote

Agreed, if the chaff were dispersed how we currently do it then at that speed it would become ineffective very quickly. However we launch chaff at those speeds to get the correct dispersal pattern in our atmosphere, it shouldn't be impossible to change the distribution pattern to make it more effective in space. Keep in mind that aluminum spreads heat well but even if it burns off it will cool and return to a solid state. All other forms of defeating energy based weaponry considered, chaff really seems to be the best solution, so long as you aren't traveling at high speeds over a large distance.

Quoting jrdufour, reply 22
Any explosive won't do much in terms of shockwave damage. But actual the biggest enemy in space is heat. If the surface of your ship gets heated up, there is no easy way to cool it down. Since space is a vacuum, there is no air to conduct heat away from your ship. An explosion only needs to heat, or release radiation that heats, your ships hull up, fracturing it from heat stress.
End of jrdufour's quote

There are far better ways to cool something down than by running air over it, and even so I think you've got things backwards. In space its more difficult to heat things up. There is nothing in which to insulate heat in (like air or water) as such heat (energy) radiates off very effectively. Otherwise the heat (energy) given off by the sun would have vaporized us billions of years ago. It would be likely that any space fairing civilization would deal with insulation, radiation, and heat shielding very early on and be very adept at mitigating this. Considering that you know, a star is a huge ball of head and radiation. One of the most effective ways to do this is similar to how a nuclear reactor is kept in its proper heat zone. By piping h2o or a mix of water and chemicals to keep it from boiling off and bursting the pipes it travels in. If this were incorporated into the skin of the spacecraft it would provide shielding from stars (up to a certain point) and from heat/radiation based weaponry as well.

Reply #25 Top

Quoting Aeraellien, reply 24

There are far better ways to cool something down than by running air over it, and even so I think you've got things backwards. In space its more difficult to heat things up. There is nothing in which to insulate heat in (like air or water) as such heat (energy) radiates off very effectively. Otherwise the heat (energy) given off by the sun would have vaporized us billions of years ago. It would be likely that any space fairing civilization would deal with insulation, radiation, and heat shielding very early on and be very adept at mitigating this. Considering that you know, a star is a huge ball of head and radiation. One of the most effective ways to do this is similar to how a nuclear reactor is kept in its proper heat zone. By piping h2o or a mix of water and chemicals to keep it from boiling off and bursting the pipes it travels in. If this were incorporated into the skin of the spacecraft it would provide shielding from stars (up to a certain point) and from heat/radiation based weaponry as well.
End of Aeraellien's quote

Actually heat buildup is a huge issue in space, and you must find a way to dissipate it. It's funny because it's something you don't typically consider, because on earth it's such a simple matter. Everything you use generates heat, especially electronics. 


Inside the ship, there is atmosphere so anything inside the pressurized section can cooled conventionally. Still you'll have to dissipate all of the heat that builds up in the life support system from that. 


Not to mention what the hull adsorbs from solar radiation while in space, true you could (and probably would) run coolant piping through the hull to reduce thermal stress, but if I cover your ship’s hull with radioactive goo, or some other solution that gives off massive amounts of heat (such as two solutions one oxidizing and the other reducing, that exothermically react and aren't mixed until on the target) , it will transfer heat to your hull through conductive transfer and could overwhelm your hull cooling system if intense enough. 
Also you weapons, engines, and power systems, will generate significant amounts of heat, even more in combat because (presumably) you are running all your systems near maximum at the same time. 

In your example on a nuclear reactor, you are correct. Although the thermal energy in the cooling system is run to a boiler that runs steam turbines that then generates the electricity (in a land based reactor, I believe nuclear subs and whatnot work a little differently). But at the end of all this, the thermal energy from a nuclear reactor ultimately is transferred to the earth’s atmosphere; or sometimes nearby lakes or streams.


The only way to dissipate heat in space is through black-body radiation, which isn't as efficient as air cooled, and (in our current technology) is much more fragile. Technically all materials will emit blackbody radiation, but they can all also absorb it as well. So typically large panels made out of good black-body materials are deployed, and kept off phase (perpendicular) to solar radiation so that they don’t absorb any heat, and emit a lot of it. As much of the ships heat as possible is pumped into these ‘black-body heat sinks’
We have to assume that these heat sinks are much more compact and robust in our futuristic world of GC3, otherwise all I’d have to do to an enemy ship to cripple it would be to destroy their black body heat sinks and run away. Assuming they are too far away from a repair point, and don’t have replacement materials themselves, they are going to blow up from overheating, or die from turning off systems to keep from blowing up from overheating.

Unfortunately, Wikipedia is really lacking on any information about this, I'd hate to refer to scientific articles, especially ones that are behind pay walls, but here is a short one that is available for free. http://www.waset.org/journals/waset/v59/v59-289.pdf They are looking at a different conduction system to the black body heat sink, but you should be able to get a feel for some of the difficulties involved in heat dissipation in space.

There is another alternative to black body radiation cooling, you could carry tanks of liquid nitrogen or other cold substances. In effect, you have dissipated the heat you are going to generate in the future into the environment that the substance was harvested from.
Another option would be to carry around two substances that when mixed, absorb heat in a chemical reaction; think those instant ice packs, you pop an inside container, two substances mix, and voila instant cold.
The only issue with those two methods is that you’ll have a limited amount of heat reduction. You’ll have to be continuously re-supplied with these substances, which IS technically feasible, especially if we consider that ships are being regularly supplied with food and other perishable items.
But having this capacity limited, makes you even more vulnerable to heat based weaponry.