playable multiplayer

to determine if several players could play simultaneously the game have to calculate if they are out of range (so teleportation is impossible) and see if there is no concurrency on one galactic achievement (or any other unique resource). To avoid problems increased of range should not impact the actual turn but only next turns.

out of range means 2 players can't go in the same place : they can't fight, they con't colonize the same planet, tack the same ressource...

That means the turn order is calculated for each turn

Simultaneous turns could be an important advance for multiplayer mode

With that you could increased the number of players

For example in a 12 players multiplayer game :

- everybody could play simultaneously in the early phase of the game so the start could be very fast whatever the number of player

- then they could be 3 to 4 players playing simultaneously (as there where 3 to 4 players)

- and at the end 2 players playing simultaneously (as there where 6 but some should be exterminated so less than 6 actually...)

Simultaneous turns could enhance the number of player by at least 2 (may be 3 or 4) without increased the duration. It should increased the speed in the early phase whatever the configuration and increased the speed in later phases when there is a lot of players (over 6) (it may be possible to have 16 players...)

The galaxy could be designed to have large empty areas acting like natural frontiers to limit the average number of neighbors per player so increasing the number of players that could play simultaneously...

Speaking of that I feel it very unfair and frustrating that if you reach a galactic achievement in the same turn the resolution of this conflict depend on the turn order...

"Fast" multiplayer would almost need to be a seperate mode, because most of the stuff on that list would really irritate me when I'm trying to play coop multiplayer (not to mention that it doesn't line up with the single player game very well).

So in "fast" competitive mode, you do stuff like this:

1. Advanced Start - Start off with a home planet more developed, getting you into the "doing stuff" Phase of the game a lot faster.

2. Turn time limit

3. Smaller maps. There's just no way to do a "fast" game on an immense size galaxy.

4. Simultaneous turns. These greatly speed things up, but also create a first clicker problem. (You and I are both one move away from colonizing something, and whoever clicks first gets it.)

4. Simultaneous turns. These greatly speed things up, but also create a first clicker problem. (You and I are both one move away from colonizing something, and whoever clicks first gets it.)

> no if it's possible we can't play simultaneously

in my mind simultaneous turn respect totally the turn by turn mode : several players playing simultaneously could not interact in any way (on the map or on unique building...) the game calculate who can play simultaneously and organize each turn order to avoid problems

A time limit yes but not a fixed time limit 1 minute is too long at the beginning and too short at the end

A smaller map with 4 players it's good but it's not epic if we wanna play in gigantic map with a lot of players there are problems to solve

Civilization IV allowed for simultaneous turns but the system was not really smart and it ended in confusing move when two players were able to move at the same place.

And how do you determine what "interacting" means? That's going to be confusing as hell for the people playing it, because sometimes they can act and sometimes they can't.

To calculate if 2 players A and B could play simultaneously (an idea...):

The game have to calculate for each ship of A and B the range that "draw" circles around ships and see if this circles of A "touch" or include or are include in circles of B or if circle of A include planets or starbases or anything of B and calculate the same for B... (it's a collision problem you have points (planets stabases...) and circles (ships and their range) and try to find if they are interacting or not)

and check if A and B will build a unique building at this turn

If not they can play simultaneously

This pseudo algorithm may be extends to calculate if 3 or 4 or n players could play simultaneously

The aim is to ensure there will be no concurrency in any way

Ok it will certainly be a lot more complicated than that...

I've played once to civilization multiplayer (I don't rember wich one) but it was before simultaneous turns (it was too long between turns and other players exit too often (9/10 you finish against the AI) so after a few try I've stop and never try again...)

So I didn't know that someone already done this in a video game, I personally descover that in the broad game eclipse...

But when I imagine this mechanism in video game I never think that everybody will play in the same time everytime (that is a semi turn by turn semi real time)

but just, like I said, that the system will calculate wich players could play simultaneously without any concurrency problem (Thread safe) to not break the turn by turn aspect at all the only change is that the turn order is different each turn.

So it's a simultaneous turn safe mechanism

if 2 players could go in the same place : they can't play simultaneously

...

It will be invisible for players they won't see the difference (just an apparently random turn order)

May be some adaptations will be needed to prevent players to be within range of everybody (building starbases everywhere for example)

I'd say it's an advantage with these kinds of games they can provide long epic MP experiences. We have enough fast action MP experiences arround.

There will of course be quick speed, tiny maps and teamer possibilities for those who want short as possible games. But what really will make MP to stand out in GalCiv3 is the possibilities to play hours after hours with many human opponents on big maps and on normal + speeds. The great SP experience, but with mostly human opponents. That's the kind of games I will organize and play.

Simultaneous turns is a game mode I take for granted too, if MP is going to be successfull.

Edit: A good scaling turn timer system (like the one in Civ 5) is another must!

(I don't know how to quote...)

Epic game with let say 9 players without timer let say 5 minutes/player in average You have to wait 8x5 = 40 minutes before playing it's simply impossible even if you can plan orders between your turns

If MP is epic : big map, lot of players I don't think timer or simultaneous turns will be an option

One more time timer should'nt be fixed but function of the size empire (number of planets, number of fleet). The only 4X MP I've try was fixed (30s or 1min or 2min) it is horrible when you have lot of troops and cities

In one hand if you have more than 10 minutes of between turns (may be less???) the MP will be very unpleasant

In the other hand if everybody play simultaneously it break the turn by turn aspect, you have to click faster 

From my experience this aspect are very important for MP so we (they) should decide wisely how it will work

You could say : "offer all possibilities players will chose..."

But if a game offer lot's of MP possibilities that will divide the community : some will play simultaneously some won't, some will pay fast game other epic game...

So they will be less players available for match making and that is very important for MP

There some important points for MP :

• The time between turn
• The frequency of players that exit the game before the end
• The time needed to start a new game

I think it will be interesting to list what solutions where tested in other video or broad games (or even new solutions you imagine) and see pros et cons to decide wisely...

until now only real time strategy work fine with multiplayer

I never see a good turn by turn multiplayer game and you?

For exemple League Of Legend :

• Short game (45 minutes)
• prohibitive sanction if you exit the game before the end
• Only 2 choices : 5vs5 or 3vs3 
• real time so no problem of waiting time

Here players expected more epic games so I think the duration could be a few hours between 2 and 4h may be

If MP is limited to 4 players : I probably won't try it because it limit a lot diplomacy, I personally expect at least 6 players

I'm not the slightest worried about that. More possibilities here will only enrich the MP community and make it grow. We need to look at Civ 4 and 5 in these matters, and the choices you have there in the setups. Most of Firaxis' solutions will also be ideal for GalCiv3.

Hi there,

no I think, human Players wouldn't leave a game, when they have enough to do in their turn ... so the waiting time, that they could do anything, should be as short as possible.

I am playing only with friends MP , so our MP games are somehow more COOP against AI, but not really coop ... everyone is looking to achieve as many Points as possible

The worst time is, when the AI is taking his turn ,,, special if we play Civilization V

SO IT SHOULD BE ALWAYS THAT ALL PLAYERS PLAYING AT THE SAME TIME , and even when I have pressed the Button "NEXT TURN" .. I should be able to plan already the next turn ... examine the map, looking for trading Partners, looking with whom I could trade and so on ...

some of that points are working in Civ V but MOST DON'T !

WHY EVERYTHING AT THE SAME TIME, it helps small nations and the AI , as Players with small Empires could do their turn optimal and have sometimes the advantage to do their important move , before a Player has done it, who already has dozen of other moves !

OF COURSE TIME LIMIT, which depends on the smallest player and or the fastest human player ... when the first human Player finished his turn, a clock starts to Count down to Zero, how Long depends at the state of the game !

I AND MY FRIENDS don't like that 30min to 4 hours games ... our CIV V games are most over 20-30 hours Long (3-5 meetings) ... 4-6 humans + 6-8 AI Nations ... but we would prefer 4-6 humans and  over 40 AI nations (in CIV V 64 Empires would be technical possible ... )

AND TO SPEED THINGS UP, there should be a MULTITHREADING SERVER VERSION, which only needs a very fast CPU and near no GPU power at all, as only the clients should need high GPU power...

really loooking Forward for

- MULTHREADING SERVER VERSION
- Players and AI SIMULTAN TURNS (with or without timelimit)
- CLIENT could always do something between the turns
- up to 64 human or AI nations
- MOD Support for MP

PS: Gal CIV III is my first "founder supported game"

Except for the way they broke diplomacy with the AI in Civ 5's MP. That was terrible. Don't copy that.

The key thing for me is to not screw up the game to try and make it work in MP. I want a long game, with all the stuff that's in single player. I just want player 2 to be another human.

What I don't want is some fast paced deathmatch thing. There's tons of games for that already.

I'm talking about the setup screen when you set up a game, and the choices there.

Not how they for some reason made the AI act so passively diplomatically in MP games compared to SP games. That part ruined MP for many people in Civ5, and I totally agree with you. 

Anyways, I think that was more of a bug then intended, a bug they haven't prioritized too much to fix.

Why not have a percent slider in the game setup: auto-turn after X% of players click turn? Say there are 5 players and you set it at 25%. Two people click turn and the game advances without disturbing the remaining three. Or at 75%, and four people would have to click turn.

The main idea is players decide how fast the game plays, instead of imposing artificial restrictions to speed up the game.

Sorry if I've posted this idea elsewhere.

I dont undertand your idea : all players are not in the same turn ? they would be one turn difference between the slowest and the fastest ?

All players play simultaneously ?

I personally want a PvP or massively PvP and not a coop PvE...

I'm assuming yes, because otherwise you only get to play 1/(# of players) of the time. If twelve players take 2.5 minutes to make their move, the game advances by two turns per hour.

Yep. Multiplayer for TBS has come a long way. You will be suprised.

If you move your mouse-cursor over a post, you can see several buttons in the lower right corner of the post. The second one from the right is the Quote-button. If you press it, you will quote the entire post. However, if you mark a section of the post first, you will only quote that portion.

I hope that helps.

Thank you

An ship editor which can auto-save designs when you exit would be cool for multiplayer.

EVERYBODY playing simultaneously...

If there is concurrency between players it's no longer a turn base strategy (I imagine TBS means that)

In my version of simultaneous turns the turn is respected : when it's your turn you can do whatever you want nobody will stop you. If other players plays simultaneously it's because the system find that they can't prevent themselves to act

real time is make for that : everybody playing at the same time.

Turn base is make for playing one by one (the game might "parallelize" players if there is no (not enough) concurrency problem between them)

So if you want that everybody could play at the same time why choosing a turn base mechanism? why adapt a mechanism to do what an other mechanism already do (better)?

GC3 could be a Sin of a solar empire with a lot more management, diplomacy, (non military) ways to win... (to caricature)

what about splitting turns into phases

1) phase one- actual turn    (all other players on phase 3)

• you move all your ships
• invade planets.
• no building ships choosing research or choosing improvements

2) phase 2 instant alerts

• ships built
• planetary improvements built
• research projects completed

phase 3 (inactive) during this all other players are completing their phase 1/2

• choose what ships get built
• choose what planetary improvements get built
• diplomacy
• ship design
• espionage
• plan ship movements

after re-reading the op i think i just wrote down some of what he did differently