Politics: More Governments/Political Parties

Generally it should be the other way round, military dictatorships tend to have an easier time enforcing public order and morale during 'normal operation' but are more vulnerable to violent upheavals. So maybe allowing them to ignore a certain amount of unhappiness (while democracies get an instant hit from it) to represent using repression to keep things under control.

But yes, more variety in political systems would be good, just as long as it doesn't become a micromanaging slog that negatively impacts the flow of gameplay.

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Quoting MattStriker,

reply 1

Generally it should be the other way round, military dictatorships tend to have an easier time enforcing public order and morale during 'normal operation' but are more vulnerable to violent upheavals. So maybe allowing them to ignore a certain amount of unhappiness (while democracies get an instant hit from it) to represent using repression to keep things under control.

But yes, more variety in political systems would be good, just as long as it doesn't become a micromanaging slog that negatively impacts the flow of gameplay.

Good point on the military dictatorships. And I don't want it to be too complicated. Just want a little more teeth to the system, if I can use that term. As it is, it's too shallow. Making different governments with different bonuses and negatives (maybe even diplomatic affects) would be enough for me.

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Hawawaa

Join Date 09/2006

+33

I see 2 ways since most 4Xs go the old route so do it like Distant Worlds/GC or Sots 2- Your actions choose your government type.

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Quoting Hawawaa,

reply 3

I see 2 ways since most 4Xs go the old route so do it like Distant Worlds/GC or Sots 2- Your actions choose your government type.

I admit, I actually like the way the SoTS Series actually did government types (actions determine government). Ideally, a democracy shouldn't be war-mongering and cleansing planets and still be called a democracy, for instance. I mean, it can, but... ugh, history.

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Democracy doesn't necessarily mean 'good guys' (nor is the inverse necessarily true). If the will of the people is to conquer and commit atrocities, then a democracy, which at least nominally follows the will of the people, will engage in these practices.

Athenian democracy, often cited as the ur-example, saw nothing wrong in razing cities to the ground, slaughtering the civilian inhabitants and dragging the survivors off to slavery...that's how warfare worked. They just didn't want it to happen to them. And when they went on the offensive near the end of the Graeco-Persian Wars the opportunity to actually do these things to their enemy found broad support throughout all layers of society, not just the relatively few enfranchised free citizens. A civilization with a similar attitude wouldn't be a particularly nice neighbor even if their government was 100% democratic, and would probably be a lot more agreeable under a sufficiently brutal dictator (who could keep the mob in check for reasons of Realpolitik).

Anyway, my point is, tying government to 'alignment' tends to oversimplify things a bit. But perhaps that is an acceptable break from reality to facilitate gameplay .

+2

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Quoting ,

quoting post

One of the things I enjoyed in Gal Civs II from a role-playing standpoint was political parties. I really liked them, and I would like to see greater emphasis placed on internal political rivalries (more parties, more fighting for votes, etc.)

Another thing is governments. I liked the idea of governments, but I felt they were too straight-forward (Federation = swimming in money). I hope to see more government types based on preference, each offering different bonuses (like political parties) and have it affect how it affects you diplomatically and internally:

ex. Democracy, Republic, Theocracy, Kingdom/Empire, Oligarchy, Military Dictatorship, Totalitarian, Hegemony, etc. Each should have their own bonuses and draw-backs (Military Dictatorship gets Hit point and weapons bonuses but take hits happiness; while Democracy gets happiness bonuses and some economic bonuses but a bit more instability with politics). The way I wrote it makes it seem more complicated than it really is.

Just throwing out some ideas/things I would like to see there.

I like 'em. This would definitely fit into my hopes for more of a "living and breathing" galaxy. I am tired of feeling all alone in a game universe that should contain billions of people.

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Quoting MattStriker,

reply 5

Democracy doesn't necessarily mean 'good guys' (nor is the inverse necessarily true). If the will of the people is to conquer and commit atrocities, then a democracy, which at least nominally follows the will of the people, will engage in these practices.

Athenian democracy, often cited as the ur-example, saw nothing wrong in razing cities to the ground, slaughtering the civilian inhabitants and dragging the survivors off to slavery...that's how warfare worked. They just didn't want it to happen to them. And when they went on the offensive near the end of the Graeco-Persian Wars the opportunity to actually do these things to their enemy found broad support throughout all layers of society, not just the relatively few enfranchised free citizens. A civilization with a similar attitude wouldn't be a particularly nice neighbor even if their government was 100% democratic, and would probably be a lot more agreeable under a sufficiently brutal dictator (who could keep the mob in check for reasons of Realpolitik).

Anyway, my point is, tying government to 'alignment' tends to oversimplify things a bit. But perhaps that is an acceptable break from reality to facilitate gameplay .

You know your history! I'm giving you Karma simply for that alone!

+1

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Yes! I'd love this. And I think it would make sense for it to be pretty much outside of your control. Parties should rise and fall in reaction to the things you're doing... if there are a lot of strong, violent neighbors, then your pro-defense party might win a lot of local elections, especially on border planets. And that might then affect unrest/production/research/etc on that planet. And maybe even affect the racial composition of the planet, if a nativist party takes root...

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IMO, government is all about centralization of power. Where power is concentrated and how it is used defines the government. In practice, true democracies or absolute dictatorships do not exist. There are always complex systems of power relations withing the society.

So instead of defining a system of government, I would like to see a system of multiple fundamental belief systems like Civilization uses, or a system where you can give up control/power for some benefit. For example, giving up control of building production on a planet would give an increase in production; giving up control to direct research would give an increae in overall research (this requires an undirected research system); giving up control of exploration increases the rate of discovery and colonization, and giving up control of culture increases culture production but increases susceptibility to conversion.

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You know, I never really liked the political party system used in GalCiv II, it always felt weird that all those alien civilizations would have the same parties available in their societies.

What if there was a completely different system in place for creating/choosing the political structure of your civilization. Perhaps something like legos; building blocks of basic political ideas which you can pick and choose from to build the overall political ideologies of your empire? Some of those building blocks could be locked to some races. During the course of the game, your civilization's collection of political building blocks could change due to events, democratic votes, and by unlocking new blocks through research.

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athelasloraiel

Join Date 12/2011

+10

how about co-op play with party leaders and faction leaders being other players?

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Quoting 1xador,

reply 9

So instead of defining a system of government, I would like to see a system of multiple fundamental belief systems like Civilization uses, or a system where you can give up control/power for some benefit. For example, giving up control of building production on a planet would give an increase in production; giving up control to direct research would give an increae in overall research (this requires an undirected research system); giving up control of exploration increases the rate of discovery and colonization, and giving up control of culture increases culture production but increases susceptibility to conversion.

Related to this idea: Political sliders. Allow players to fine-tune their political system of choice on multiple axes, such as Freedom vs. Control, Planned vs. Free Economy, Religious Freedom vs. Theocracy etc.. Make moving the slider have temporary negative consequences so you can't just reform your government on the fly to match current requirements, and give political parties and events a chance to move sliders on their own, requiring the player to either invest time and effort to keep their system of choice going or accept the new status quo.

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Cyong_

Join Date 03/2004

+1

I just want a random event to occur either to the civilization or a colony that causes the political powers at play to 'Shut Down the Government'.

Since Stardock seems to have fun embedding jokes in to their dialogues, just figured this would be a nice joke to have.

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Quoting Cyong_,

reply 13

I just want a random event to occur either to the civilization or a colony that causes the political powers at play to 'Shut Down the Government'.

Since Stardock seems to have fun embedding jokes in to their dialogues, just figured this would be a nice joke to have.

I was just thinking about that yesterday! Though that might be old news by release... or not.

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Wintersong

Join Date 07/2006

+235

Elections were so pointless in GalCiv II. Make sure to keep green morale some time before them to make sure that your party wins while the rest of the time you can overtax your people to death.

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Quoting jim_viebke,

reply 14

Quoting Cyong_, reply 13
I just want a random event to occur either to the civilization or a colony that causes the political powers at play to 'Shut Down the Government'.

Since Stardock seems to have fun embedding jokes in to their dialogues, just figured this would be a nice joke to have.

I was just thinning about that yesterday! Though that might be old news by release... or not.

I think the best random events could be created just by collecting actual news headlines and adapting them for the game. Cover everything from some entertainment tart "twerking"on the extranet (perhaps triggering a war? ), to government shutdowns. You could even have a random event about a luxury cruise vessel slamming into a space station because the captain was too busy having dinner with a female guest. Sci-fi is great for satire.

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KzintiPatriarch

Join Date 05/2007

+95

Yes, more interesting government and political choices would be great. Make different governments have various advantages and drawbacks, rather than having certain ones that are unquestionably superior to others.

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Quoting Sriseru,

reply 10

You know, I never really liked the political party system used in GalCiv II, it always felt weird that all those alien civilizations would have the same parties available in their societies.

What if there was a completely different system in place for creating/choosing the political structure of your civilization. Perhaps something like legos; building blocks of basic political ideas which you can pick and choose from to build the overall political ideologies of your empire? Some of those building blocks could be locked to some races. During the course of the game, your civilization's collection of political building blocks could change due to events, democratic votes, and by unlocking new blocks through research.

I *love* this idea. It could result in some really interesting combinations that would be really fun from a scifi or roleplaying perspective. And it would make a lot of sense for humans to meet a hive-mind race and learn some kind of social structure options out of that cultural exchange.

And it could be that some social legos wouldn't be available unless you had a strongly dominant race/culture on one planet, or strongly diverse, or what-have-you (to tie in with my desire for there to be race/culture statistics by planet).

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Well, the "building blocks" are a bit akin to CivV's social policies, no? I really liked that mechanic.

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One idea might be to give diplomatic bonuses if the other race you're dealing with has a similar system of government.

But yeah, I'd like to see something more varied

than Imperial < Republic < Democracy < Federation.

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