Stuff you'd like to see in the THIRD XPack

XPack is short for eXPansion pACK

from Sins Forums

This post is about a bunch of stuff for the devs to read, and put in the 3rd expansion. SERIOUSLY DEVS, READ THIS POST!!!!

I'll probably need to say this in the most un-PC way I can think of, without resorting to profanity, so here goes- DEVS, UPDATE THE FREAKING FORGE TOOLS ALREADY!! MODDERS NEED READILY ACCESSIBLE TOOLS, AND FORGE TOOLS IS SOMETHING THAT WAS USED. SO UPDATE IT ALREADY!!!

Now that's out of the way, here's some things I'd like to see-

Some new offensive ships. I'm not talkin' new defense-busters, though the Vasari certainly need a polishin' in that area, but new offensive, multipurpose heavy combat ships. Something like a new, improved, and more heavily armed heavy cruiser. And some new caps would also be cool.

Orbital refinement upgrades for the TEC Starbase. They are the industrial juggernauts. Their starbase should reflect this.

This is a more personal thing, but there REALLY needs to be the capacity to add NEW cap ship names for modders, and not just new ones for the stock races, but new ones for new races that modders come up with. Also, increasing the name limit from 13 to something like 23-26 characters would be very nice. After all, I think that I should be able to rename my Sova carrier that's currently 'TDN Karamazov' to 'The Brothers Karamazov'. If you've never heard of the 2nd term, then Google it.

NEW STRIKECRAFT TYPES- some depth to this to prevent carrier spammers and also add some interesting dogfighting elements to strikecraft-oriented mods. Not sure if others do this, but sometimes I like to zoom in on my SCs and watch 'em dogfight or zoom around filling enemy caps with missiles.

Some defense-buster Vasari cruisers. Their SBs are EXPENSIVE!!. A cheap way out is to simply make the ability cheaper; however it's that expensive because their constructor is also their colony frigate. Some new and improved assault cruisers would also be nice.

Personally, my gameplay style tends to be more militarily oriented. As such, I'd like to see a lot of new ships and defenses and defense-busting gear. Another thing I'd like would be a TEC minelayer. Both the Advent and the Vasari can exert control over neutrals with mines, but the TEC cannot.

Also, some stuff that has been bugging me about the lore-

Why did the Advent decide that when the TEC were embroiled in war with the Vasari was the best time to return? Was it because they thought it would be an EASY CONQUEST perhaps?

And what are the Vasari running from? Will it catch up to them in the 3rd, or possibly 2nd expansion? Where did this uknown enemy come from? If they are explained, will they be introduced as a 4th playable race?

And PLEASE, nerf the Illums a bit. Personally, I think they should lose their voluminous health, and also get a slightly lower damage for their beam weapons. On the flip side, either boost the Vasari's Assailant, or do a beefed-up cruiser version. The TEC are pretty good as is, but some anti-ship capabilities for their Ogrovs would be nice.

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Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

I shall reply in red.


This post is about a bunch of stuff for the devs to read, and put in the 3rd expansion. SERIOUSLY DEVS, READ THIS POST!!!!

I'll probably need to say this in the most un-PC way I can think of, without resorting to profanity, so here goes- DEVS, UPDATE THE FREAKING FORGE TOOLS ALREADY!! MODDERS NEED READILY ACCESSIBLE TOOLS, AND FORGE TOOLS IS SOMETHING THAT WAS USED. SO UPDATE IT ALREADY!!!  I wouldn't have been so emphatic, but yeah... please update them...

Now that's out of the way, here's some things I'd like to see-

Some new offensive ships. I'm not talkin' new defense-busters, though the Vasari certainly need a polishin' in that area, but new offensive, multipurpose heavy combat ships. Something like a new, improved, and more heavily armed heavy cruiser. And some new caps would also be cool.  See Darvin's Artillery Cruiser idea...

Orbital refinement upgrades for the TEC Starbase. They are the industrial juggernauts. Their starbase should reflect this.

This is a more personal thing, but there REALLY needs to be the capacity to add NEW cap ship names for modders, and not just new ones for the stock races, but new ones for new races that modders come up with. Also, increasing the name limit from 13 to something like 23-26 characters would be very nice. After all, I think that I should be able to rename my Sova carrier that's currently 'TDN Karamazov' to 'The Brothers Karamazov'. If you've never heard of the 2nd term, then Google it.  You can add caps, races, and many other things.

NEW STRIKECRAFT TYPES- some depth to this to prevent carrier spammers and also add some interesting dogfighting elements to strikecraft-oriented mods. Not sure if others do this, but sometimes I like to zoom in on my SCs and watch 'em dogfight or zoom around filling enemy caps with missiles.  I think everyone who mods agrees with this view.

Some defense-buster Vasari cruisers. Their SBs are EXPENSIVE!!. A cheap way out is to simply make the ability cheaper; however it's that expensive because their constructor is also their colony frigate. Some new and improved assault cruisers would also be nice.  See Darvin's artillery cruiser idea.

Personally, my gameplay style tends to be more militarily oriented. As such, I'd like to see a lot of new ships and defenses and defense-busting gear. Another thing I'd like would be a TEC minelayer. Both the Advent and the Vasari can exert control over neutrals with mines, but the TEC cannot.

Also, some stuff that has been bugging me about the lore-

Why did the Advent decide that when the TEC were embroiled in war with the Vasari was the best time to return? Was it because they thought it would be an EASY CONQUEST perhaps?  Yeah... You wait until your enemy is weak, or in the case of Sinners, it is because they didn't know about the Vasari war...

And what are the Vasari running from? Will it catch up to them in the 3rd, or possibly 2nd expansion? Where did this uknown enemy come from? If they are explained, will they be introduced as a 4th playable race?  Idk, no, no, idk, they aren't explained, get over it...  The idea is to wonder what is chasing them, and not to know...

And PLEASE, nerf the Illums a bit. Personally, I think they should lose their voluminous health, and also get a slightly lower damage for their beam weapons. On the flip side, either boost the Vasari's Assailant, or do a beefed-up cruiser version. The TEC are pretty good as is, but some anti-ship capabilities for their Ogrovs would be nice.  See Darvin's artillery cruiser idea...

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

one of the reasons I was a bit redundant and emphatic was because I think the devs should actually DO this stuff. As for the name thing, what I am asking right there is for them to increase the character length from 13 to 23 or more. That way I can name my ships absurdly long names, like 'The Brothers Karamazov'.

Start11 - Customize the Start Menu and Taskbar in Windows 10/11.
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Yes, names that won't fit in the labels without covering up something else...

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

All I want right now is to launch a game as Vasari and not be obliged to take an EGG unless the enemy homeworld is 2 jumps away.
Vas Caps need to be reworked. Brutally and almost completely reworked.
Good vas cap abilities that are neither OP nor almost totally useless I can count on the fingers of one hand.

Advent caps are great. Balanced, polished. You can roll almost any one at the start and still not take a huge hit for it, unlike starting with sth else than the egg for Vasari.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Personally, I don't want to discuss what to include in the third expansion pack till the second has been released.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

A lot of the things you're complaining about are what make the races unique. Giving the Vasari a structure buster or the ability to lay mines outside of their own planets to the TEC would be going against what the devs deliberately set up.

Suggestions should be less like, Zerglings are the weakest starting unit and need to be buffed, and more like, Zerglings are proportionately weaker than the other starting units in their current state and should spawn faster. (using StarCraft as a reference)

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

N3rull,

When I play Vasari, I usually get a migrator for colonizing. Instead of getting a space egg, I usually go with a Skirantra Carrier first.

Also, the things with the Vasari structure buster is really making either something that is a more powerful, cruiser-sized Assailant or just buffing up the Assailant. As-is, it's just too weak.

With the TEC, they should get something like a minelayer, as with the 3rd expansion, the way could have turned to the point where the TEC now needs more offensive-type capabilities.

As for Illums, I think that's a general concensus that they need nerfing. UNLESS you're an Illum spammer or rusher. In that case beware the Legion. They will destroyer Illum spammers AND rushers.

Personally, I think that these things should be reworked because if you compare the TEC LRMs, Vasari Assailants, and Advent Illums, the Illums are almost on par with TEC Kodiaks. And IMO that is a BIG no-no. LRMs are quite well balanced, while Assailants need some buffing up in terms of survivability. Illums need much less hull points. Their shield strength I can understand and deal with, as the Advent are sheild masters. But the Illums should have weak hulls.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

True...  the Vasari ships need to be reworked...  If you gave even a tiny buff to the Kortul's power surge, it would be on the same level as the egg.  Such a thing would easily make you see Kortuls out in larger numbers, and thus the Vasari would have a much better time against SC's.  Its not really a problem, I'm just saying...

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

N3rull,

When I play Vasari, I usually get a migrator for colonizing. Instead of getting a space egg, I usually go with a Skirantra Carrier first.

The egg wins hands down anytime because:

0] Game begins. Build an EGG and some scouts.
1a] You wipe the nearest asteroid, then buy what extra XPs you need for lvl2. Get colonization and Nano-dis.
1b] You build two empire labs. Fortification specialist research adviced.

2] You send the EGG to any planet whilst making the proper colonization research.
3] You nano any siege frigs (nano kills any siege frig with one cast and doesn't need further attention from the EGG)
4] You colonize the planet (migrators won't survive against a rebel fleet with 3 LFs, 3 LRFs and 2 kodiaks. The Egg will)
5] Upgrade the planet with enough civilian infrastructure not to pay upkeep and, optionally, upgrade shelters.
6] Go back to 2] (as in - jump to another planet, wipe krosovs there, colonize, upgrade, jump....)

The egg is tough, regenerates AM 4 times faster than a migrator (!) and can quickly wipe all siege frigs with nano.

After 15 minutes you can have 7-8 planets, credit income at the level of 25/second and enough room to proceed any technological route you desire.
Now count how much slower the Skirantra start is. After 15 minutes you will have as much as MAYBE 3-4 planets. So what that you have a few more ships, the player using the EGG start has double your credit income and will outproduce you with ease.

That's the problem. Unless you can assault the enemy homeworld in the first 5 minutes, EGG star wins. Badly.

I don't think it should be that way.
I'd like to be able to choose the Kortul and use it to wipe large fleets much faster than I would with the EGG. With nano disassembler on the egg, Kortul is not better at all.
I'd like to be able to start with a Skirantra and not use it solely as a repair station.
I'd like to be able to roll the Marauder and have it do something more than just turbocharge my fleet's engines by 30%.

I would like to have a choice. ither choose the egg and have a few more planets, or roll the Kortul and have a few less, but quickly liberated from rebels. Right now, the egg can do both jobs better then the Kortul.
Thiz iz wroung.

*breaks into hysterical sobbing*

Somebody fix this please :pout:

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

The Kortul needs a buff...  Personally, I never found it all that plausible that an Egg could do what it does, but low and behold, it is better (by a longshot) than the Kortul.

 

I'll go over the abilities here:

Power Surge:  Shield Regen rate is great, but many people think that the -75% cooldown means 4x DPS.  It doesn't.  In reality, the following are the effects of PS

+67.5 Shield Points

+75% DPS.

Now, the second one seems big and wonderful, except that it only really helps out when you are at level 7+ as it makes the Kortul's damage massive.  Until then, it doesn't do all that much, and is certainly not nano.

My Suggestion: Increase the +x% DPS to 125%.  It seems big, but it really won't hurt the game.  Such a buff will put it on par with nano.  Ie: a level 6 Kortul does 55ish pulse beam damage.  This would increase it to 123.75 DPS.  In other words, each second, you deal an additional 68.73 for 30 seconds.  That is a total of 2,000 damage which after going through mitigation, would still be less than nano, (not to mention the armor debuff)

Jam Weapons: Deactivate all SC weapons within radius

My Suggestion: Increase range increase to 2000 per level rather than 1500 and start at 4000.  This means that the range is: 4000/6000/8000.  It deals no damage to the things, so it ought to have a significantly larger AoE...

Disruptive Strikes: Increase Ability Cooldown and remove AM

My Suggestion: none.  This ability is one of the best of its kind.

Volatile Nanites: Increase damage dealt to targets and cause them to explode upon death

+30% damage to targets

150 damage to nearby enemies upon death

My Suggestion: None.  This is good against lots of frigs and would work well with a buffed PS.

 

I could probably go through and do this for every Vasari cap, but I'll stop here because this is the one that makes me the most angry...

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

i think the OP has lots of "personally, i'd like to see" or "i want" in this thread, not didn't even give a poll to see what others would like

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top

The reason for that is we haven't exactly stayed on topic, but rather have gone off on tangents...

Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top

And what are the Vasari running from? Will it catch up to them in the 3rd, or possibly 2nd expansion? Where did this uknown enemy come from? If they are explained, will they be introduced as a 4th playable race?

I wrote a rant about this a while back, I think it would fit here nicely:

"The reason I love the Vasari story is that mystery. Ive been thinking about this for some time. Ive read the lore dozens of times looking for clues, piecing it together. In many ways I think that story even convinced me to buy the game. If we were told who it was in the lore I wouldnt have obsessed about it for this long and I dont think I would even be playing Sins anymore. We all think we want to be told who it is, but the truth is that we dont. Like the story of Atlantis, which Ive also been obsessed with for years, I feel a sort of connection to this story. In this age of science and technology there isnt much left that is unknown, and I think this is why the story is so interesting. If you take away the mystery than you lose the magic."

And there you have it, my rant modified a little to fit this thread.

Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top

well dresda, I read a lot of other threads similar to this. That, and I really don't particularly care to have a poll when other people will do so without any input from myself.

soasertsus, I guess you do have a point. It's similar to the Warhammer 40k universe. In it there are 2 lost space marine legions, and 2 lost primarchs. A person once summed it up as 'we don't want to knw what happened to them, who they were, or anything, just that their lost'. I still think it would be nice if at the end they revealed what the Vasari's hunter was, but if they rig the 2nd & 3rd XPacks to be based on the vanilla&1st XPack, then you'd have to get them all, and one thing they shouldn't do is offer a pack that you can buy in the store when the do a 1st release of a full expansion (all 3 mico-XPacks).

Volt_Cruelerz, I also think Kortuls should be better than space eggs. I kinda think that they already are, and consider the egg more of a support ship; however I tend to use Marauders and Skirantras more than either the egg or the Kortul.

Anyways, this thread also gives me some good ideas for mods I'm working on. Like 'if I do this will people like it', i.e. will it be a popular and heavily D/Led mod.

Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top

Trust me, Kortul's are weaker and the lack of using those to ships makes you a far less effective as a vas player as the Egg is necessary for the econ...

(Part of the reason for a Kortul's weakness is caused by its defective ability which is not written correctly in the code...)

Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top

Most of the Kortul's weakness is that it just doesn't pack enough punch nor isn't tough enough to drop nanos and colonization for it.

The EGG is a very good cap.
All other Vasari caps are only useful in specific situations and aren't half as useful overall as the egg.

Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top

True...  Power Surge is a 75% damage increase, not the 300% most people think it is...  Disruptive Strikes is defective and it also has the lowest DPS of any battleship (the other two are 51)

Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top

valid points I think. This thread is certainly accomplishing what I made it to- getting feedback on things that both others and myself spotted that could be reworked. Also, as for Vasari structure-busters, these could be implemented in the 3rd expansion, as the 2nd is a diplomacy XPack.

Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top

I don't think so.. the vas have the SB... It is made for combat and nothing else, so they don't need a buster...

Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top

but its so FREAKING EXPENSIVE to build one, and just buffing up the Kanraks to be bunker-busters would be so much easier! Just add a new ability research under the Fortification tree and then you can have bunker-buster Assailants.

Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Whiskey144, reply 18
Also, as for Vasari structure-busters, these could be implemented in the 3rd expansion, as the 2nd is a diplomacy XPack.
I too think that Vasari do NOT need a structure buster.
Orkulus fills the role in an acceptable fashion. However, I do think the Orky needs some boost against structures. A fully upgraded Orkulus has an anti-structure firepower of about 2 starfish. Inadequate at best.

Sorry whiskey, but as much as I like the Vasari, balancing the game is not about making Vasari über alles. I do not think making kanraks structure-busters in addition to what they already are is a good idea. They deal good anti-structure damage as it is, giving them more would result in even bigger LRF spam throughout the board.

Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top

Me what I see int eh third pack is name that goes as such. "ESCALMENT" or "ESCALATION"

What I expect to see in it.

SubCapital Ship like in Volt_Cruelerz https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/358359/page/3/#replies thread. Altout I can't bare to look at the cylindrical ships.

Capital ships gettign the power they shoul. Ei fix simple stuff like Akkan colonisation just to name one. Followed by a Capital ship only Research tab. This tab would open up research topics only for capital and Subcapital ships. These researches would improve None ultimate abilaties (Not all abilities but some that could use soem love but that just boosting them out right would be wrong) They would improve Their survivabilaty in combat. Possibly some fo their standard weapons. Their speed and maneuvrabilaty, their Phase jump speed ect.

I don't see much that would be added to standard frigates and cruisers except for maybe some unique indivual upgrdes for them. Like for example an Attake bot squadron for hoshikos, or dual reintergration for Vasari HC. Stuff like that here and there.

Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top

the Vasari need one because while the Orkulus does do it in an ACCEPTABLE fashion, it is by no means OPTIMAL. They are just to FREAKING EXPENSIVE to be useful. I will concede an ENTIRELY new bunker-buster isn't necessarily needed, but something like a new anti-structure ability for the Assailants would be good.

Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Whiskey144, reply 23
the Vasari need one because while the Orkulus does do it in an ACCEPTABLE fashion, it is by no means OPTIMAL. They are just to FREAKING EXPENSIVE to be useful. I will concede an ENTIRELY new bunker-buster isn't necessarily needed, but something like a new anti-structure ability for the Assailants would be good.

A new a abilaty on the assailant would be to spammy. With my capital only research Idea you could add a researcht hat would improve the Vulkoras Anti-structure abilaty much futher thus creating their anti-structure ship. Because imagine a SB and A hard fo assaialnt with anti structure abilaty. way to powerfull.

Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top

Like I said before, the Orkulus is just to EXPENSIVE to be effective for bunker-busting. I have NEVER used the Orkulus as a bunker-buster; I just get a big fleet with a good variety and go and punish the enemy SB until it's destroyed. As the TEC however, I tend to use a goodly number of Ogrovs. They are just so FRIGGIN' POWERFUL AGAINST SBs!! And the nuke-explosion effect for their torpedo impacts is just AWESOME. While I don't know if a new ability would be too spammy, improving the Vulkoras is a certainly attainable object. Alternately, giving the Kortul a bit of a buff in ALL areas of combat is a nice idea as well.