Abiogenesis and Astrophysics

Or- Why Creationists don't have a clue as to what they're arguing against.

from JoeUser Forums

Okay, I'm just going to outline a few things that creationists can't seem to grasp about the evolutionary process.

 

When they bring up the "lighning striking a mud puddle" argument and the first appearance of life-that's not evolution.  It has nothing to do with evolution. Life from nonlife is addressed in theories about abiogenesis. (Click the link there, read about it.)

Evolution starts with a pre-existing lifeform and seeks to describe how it as a species changes over time into a new form of life.  Nothing in the theory about creating life from nonlife.  Nothing at all. 

 

Another irrelevant point that's brought up is the formation of the universe.  How did we get here?

Well, universal formation is a completely unrelated topic- call up an astrophysicist to go into detail about the Big Bang, not an evolutionary biologist.   The formation of the universe and evolution are not co-dependent nor are do they build on one another.  Completely separate.

 

Bringing either of those issues up in an argument demonstrates your ignorance of the topic, so don't expect to win over any people if you do.  Find some sort of legitimate criticism of evolution to argue about.  Although first you might want to do some reading on whatever you take issue with.  Chances are high that it's explained quite readily in print. 

And when I say reading, read the source material not your biased material that really fails to raise any issues whatsoever aside from tired talking points that even I have answered many, many times over.  Science magazines are great; peer reviewed articles are even better but may be a bit dense to the common reader.

You'll find there are a lot more answers to your questions out there than you realize, provided that you stick to the actual range of evolution instead of going on other tangents.  Have a problem with abiogenesis?  Fine, but don't blame evolution for it.  Have issues with Big Bang theory?  Whatever, just don't lump evolution in there with it.

Mini rant over.  This is just a clarification of things that I see confused all too often.

~Zoo

evolution abiogenesis astrophysics theory creationism biology
8,307 views 10 replies
Reply #1 from JoeUser Forums Top
The reason they all get bunched together is because on the Creationist side, we have explained all of that. So sometimes we forget that your crappy scientific theories only bother to apply to one bit of it, and not the whole thing. :D My theory is bigger than your theory, Zoo, and I'm arguing for the entirety of my theory, not just your little part of it. :D
Reply #2 from JoeUser Forums Top
Q - see that bit of Goo? That is your ancestors. oops! They did not bond and form life. Awwwwwww.
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Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top

Well, universal formation is a completely unrelated topic- call up an astrophysicist
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Actually you'll want to call a cosmologist, astrophysicist are basically just non-terrestrial physicist.

The reason they all get bunched together is because on the Creationist side, we have explained all of that.
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There was a time a few thousand years ago when it was possible for one man to hold the sum of human knowledge. We're growing and your not, soon we won't even be the same species. :SURPRISED:

Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top

 

The reason they all get bunched together is because on the Creationist side, we have explained all of that.
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Unfortunately the explanation cannot be tested...so it remains a story. :P  Much like The Three Little Pigs. Neither one can be demonstrated as probable or improbable, so they're on the same playing field.

My theory is bigger than your theory, Zoo, and I'm arguing for the entirety of my theory, not just your little part of it.
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Well, if you want to argue size.  "God did it." is much shorter than the entire process we're trying to present.  We beat you in length and bulk. ;)

Q - see that bit of Goo? That is your ancestors. oops! They did not bond and form life. Awwwwwww.
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Some goo is just better than other goo when it comes to living.  :P

~Zoo

Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top

In 1633, Galileo was brought to trial for asserting that the Sun was at the center of the solar system. He was placed under house arrest and was ordered to "abjure" his theories. Why? Because he contradicted Scripture (Psalm 93:1, Psalm 96:10, 1 Chronicles 16:30 include text stating that "the world is firmly established, it cannot be moved." In the same tradition, Psalm 104:5 says, "the LORD set the earth on its foundations; it can never be moved." Further, Ecclesiastes 1:5 states that "And the sun rises and sets and returns to its place.")

There is scientific evidence that the Earth revolves around the Sun, but I am sure that there are Christians who feel that this is just a theory.

Galen lived during the Roman Empire and is considered the Father of Modern Medicine. He pioneered a rational systematic approach to medicine. His works were suppressed during the Dark Ages because he was a pagan. Translated first into Arabic by Hunayn Ibn Ishaq in Moorish Spain in the 9th Century they would eventually (after hundreds of years) spread back into the Christian world during the Renaissance.

There are of course still groups who beleive that medicine is just a theory.

 

 

Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top

This is just a clarification of things that I see confused all too often.
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Well said, mate.  The very idea of 'lightning striking a puddle' seems an absurd way to argue against the technicalities of evolution.

soon we won't even be the same species.
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Hehehe...  Throw to 20,000 years in the future and you have one species 'Sciencesapiens', a very long lived species living in super cities with high technology and another species 'Christosapiens', who live outside and believe the others to be 'angels'.  Yes, I do have an active imagination.

The Three Little Pigs
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The only difference being is everyone knows The Three Little Pigs is fiction. :)

I am sure that there are Christians who feel that this is just a theory.
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Yes and to their detriment.  You know, sometimes I think if they don't believe a lot of what modern science has to offer, then they shouldn't be benefitting from it either.  The irony, of course, is a Christian sitting in front of a computer entering into an online discussion about how science has 'got it wrong', while using something that evolved from technology developed to initially help scientists do complex calculations.

Reply #7 from JoeUser Forums Top
If scientists got the computer right, why is there a blue screen of death? :D
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top

If scientists got the computer right, why is there a blue screen of death?
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Murphy's Law. :D

~Zoo

Reply #9 from JoeUser Forums Top
If scientists got the computer right, why is there a blue screen of death?
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Because all computers have a BSOD once in a while. It isn't about whether or not the computer will have a BSOD - that's a given - it's whether or not they believe that the repairman will fix them that matters. ;)
Reply #10 from JoeUser Forums Top
As a side note, BSOD's were originally caused by a TRS-80 who couldn't follow simple 8-bit instructions.