Flipping planets via influence is too... easy? risk free?

Dumhed

Join Date 08/2005

+29

Flipping planets via influence is too... easy? risk free?

(If this has been posted before, sorry)

I hadn't tried using the influence strategy until now. Generally it is less "exciting" to me. But tryign it out, I have found that it is altogether too easy to flip a planet. All I have to do is build culture buildings, research a little influence tech... and before long, invariably, my colony out influences the AI, and their planet becomes mine.

First, I think it ought to be more difficult to do this.

Second, there are no repercussions that I am aware of. After flipping a planet, AI civs don't become more mad at me... or don't consider it an act of war. But it seems inane that any civilization would simply let a planet join another civilization without a big stink. Now, if all you do is play the diplomacy and influence hand, even with a terribly weak military, I can almost waltz my way through to an alliance victory. And while I have nothing against such a strategy in general, I would think that there should be greater resistance along the way.

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Franco fx

Join Date 04/2003

+59

Quoting erischild,

reply 22

I think about how I would react as a player.

I know I would be upset if you took one of my planets, by any means, but we are talking about influence.

The first time, I would complain at you. If we are friends, I would forgive you, but I would get resentful.

The second time, I would chew you out with emphasis. I might respond diplomatically or economically if I can.

The third time, I would flat out warn you of military consequences.

Fourth time, war is declared. I'm not putting up with it anymore. For one thing, you are probably starting to win the game and I have do something about that.

I figure the AI should follow some behavior like that with variations according to flavor. For some, step three is optional. I hope that diplomatic/economic alternatives will be available. I hope that some sort of cultural response will be available as well, so that flipping isn't completely inevitable. As a mostly peaceful player, I find it fun to play with influence effects. Having the AI competently compete in that field should be great fun.

It almost never happens to me but it does upset. The moment I see a threat of flipping I build a culture SB next to the planet and pile on all the extras. When I am forewarned I have always been able to prevent the flip. It seems the AI just doesn't really get it when it comes to a culture flip

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Quoting dragoaskani,

reply 14

Why? They are flipping because the people of the planet want to change sides. This makes no sense at all under that context. It is not a hostile takeover. You're approach would make since if they were "forced" to join another civ, but this does not represent that.

For all the reasons I put in my post.

Some of those citizens would be forced to join, flipping simply represents the majority culture now dominant on the planet and either

If it's significantly different to the previous one their should be unrest, because social structure, culture and integration doesn't happen overnight.

Or if that race is just prone to unrest when changing it's social structure, lifestyle, ways or habits.

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I tend to agree. What got me was that the previous owner was in no way alarmed that their planet just revolted and joined my ranks. I would think some diplomatic reaction would be appropriate in such a situation.

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Tetrasodium

Join Date 03/2006

+17

I definitely feel that there are some intricacies to influence flipping that are greatly improved with some of the new features (free trade. more treaty options, etc) making going to war over a flip a more difficult decision . I don't see a point in discussing the admitted basic beta AI though & will go into other stuff. One place simple deciding to secede from its union/monarchy/etc to join another is rarely a simple matter... Russia, Turkey, England & the island nation of Cyprus are very twisted about & complicated even just looking at the time period from ww1/2 on to today.

Rather than just getting a message where planet xyz has joined/left after you click end turn, I'd like to see a bit more control & potential negotiation over it

You have to be able to look at the planet wanting to join/leave to see what's built there prior to starting the negotiation. I'd like to see the planet(s) first negotiate with the faction they are leaving (if they are happy) or the one joining (if unhappy) to help determine their feelings towards each major race before splitting them into a minor race. Start with alliances & allow that alliance to degrade/absorb the minor race. If multiple planets are expecting to & later wanting to flip in a short period of time, have them secede as a group to a single minor race. If the major race is later wiped out, maybe give their UP seat to the surviving minor race.

Maybe those initial negotiations involving the minor race still remaining under the parent race but doing things to prep for standing alone (rearranging colonies/building shipyards/etc) and industrial/military point trade. Freeze the minor race for a number of turns & if they want to flip again later, allow them to.

A lot of this is way more than a minor suggestion & more of a gcIV type possibility, but having them fork into a minor race locked that way for X turns that get reset/extended each time a new planet/starbase if influenced into being dumped on the minor race could add some depth to the process of influence flipping since even in galciv2 it was possible to build up influence in a way that just grew at an unstoppable rate resulting in "yea I don't see any reason to bother with the cleanup here>new game". Having them fork into a unified minor race might not be so significant a change

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peregrine23

Join Date 02/2007

+79

We must also remember that the AI is still really bare-bones. I'd like to see the influence system be more interesting, sure, but it is hard to evaluate right now because the AI is incapable of countering it. By release hopefully the AI will be able to build cultural starbases, will build influence on border planets, and will get angry when you are pushing back on their borders. I think once the AI understands how to play this will be much less of a problem.

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