Sovereign Like Leader

By on March 2, 2014 11:39:24 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

UnleashedElf

Join Date 03/2013
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Would GC3 benefit from a sovereign-like leader?

 

You would pick your race, then you would design your leader, giving them traits. Then you would assign them onto a ship and that ship would get bonuses for housing your sovereign. As your empire expands and you build better ships, you could assign them onto more potent ships.

 

They could also garrison planets for other bonuses.

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March 2, 2014 11:46:59 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

I dunno, that wouldn't be very GalCiv-ish.  Leaders in GalCiv are more disembodied.  I like the sovs in Elemental (though I miss the dynasty/children from WoM, hope they make a comeback), but its a different game.

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March 2, 2014 11:54:16 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

It may very well be that.

 

I was thinking that it would affect diplomacy too, you could customize the look of your sovereign and a few other perks.

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March 2, 2014 12:00:38 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

In Civ, the sovereign is really more like a personification of a cultural heritage/tradition.  Its kinda like being the g.d that looks after a particular civ.  People (I know) don't live for thousands of years.  One might envision their sovereign as more of a lineage / ruling family.  But even these don't seem to exist in any recognizable form, for more than a thousand years (cf. Chinese).  Even core values of civilizations seem to morph over time.  For GalCiv3, if we were to attempt to implement some sort of 'sovereign' -like game mechanic, I would suggest two separate approaches.  They are not mutually exclusive.  First, instead, of a uber sovereign, how about a set of cultural attributes from which to choose some modifiers to the species.  This would allow the player some latitude in modifying their civ, and maybe the AI run civs.  The second approach would be along the lines of SMAC.  As resources become available, and technologies discovered, allow them to enable implementation of certain changes to the civ.  And the choices would have tradeoffs.  And some choices would also modify the diplomatic connections / attitudes of other species. 

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March 2, 2014 1:51:07 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting ElanaAhova,
One might envision their sovereign as more of a lineage / ruling family.

This is the first time I have seen anyone attempt to apply abstraction to any characteristic of the GC series. GC has many characteristics which must have abstraction applied to it before one can really get into the game. The idea that a single image on a map represents a single item is a huge stumbling block, as can be seen time and time again with the misconceptions that appear on this forum.

The root of these misconceptions is rooted in the "one, two, three, ... many" syndrome that is quite common in humans. Having a picture of one ship representing thousands of ships, or a picture of one soldier representing millions of infantrymen can be daunting to the typical homo sapiens.  I can't imagine a General or Admiral becoming great without coming to grips with this problem in abstraction at some time in his/her life.

Much Karma to you ElanaAhova for pointing this out.

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March 2, 2014 2:01:51 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Lucky Jack,


Quoting ElanaAhova, reply 3One might envision their sovereign as more of a lineage / ruling family.

This is the first time I have seen anyone attempt to apply abstraction to any characteristic of the GC series. GC has many characteristics which must have abstraction applied to it before one can really get into the game. The idea that a single image on a map represents a single item is a huge stumbling block, as can be seen time and time again with the misconceptions that appear on this forum.

The root of these misconceptions is rooted in the "one, two, three, ... many" syndrome that is quite common in humans. Having a picture of one ship representing thousands of ships, or a picture of one soldier representing millions of infantrymen can be daunting to the typical homo sapiens.  I can't imagine a General or Admiral becoming great without coming to grips with this problem in abstraction at some time in his/her life.

Much Karma to you ElanaAhova for pointing this out.

 

Another option is to make the sovereign ship really potent and say, a fleet leader. You'd upgrade this ship to bigger hulls as your technology advances.

 

I'm not sure how the lineage would work. Do you want something like a managing family? I don't know if a feudal system is appropriate for a space faring civilization ... perhaps for something like Elemental, but in a space faring civ?

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March 2, 2014 3:45:36 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting UnleashedElf,
I don't know if a feudal system is appropriate for a space faring civilization

I find this a very interesting subject, that could be turned into a question: What form of government is best suited for a space faring civilization?

There are some being related environmental variables that would have to be considered in answering this question:

1) What is the communication delay between the political center and the outer reaches of an empire?

2) What is the response time of central enforcement or military forces to the outer reaches of an empire?

3) For some forms of government, how much tendency is there for diversity of attitudes between the political center and the outer reaches of an empire?

4) Others. I just can't think of them at the moment.

For example, perhaps the speed of communication was limited by some factor, such as how fast a starship can travel, was the most influential factor. In that case, it would seem that a feudal form of government would be a better system. To get a feel for this, think about how the speed of communication on our world has changed over the last two to three centuries, and how the change in communication reach has changed how effective governance can be.

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March 2, 2014 4:19:37 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

I live to be Sovereign. Fate is Sovereign, the word is almost holy to me. It's like God before creation, no evil, no good, just everything in agreement in Sovereignty. So it feels a bit wrong to hear it being used in a sentence like it is. I imagine a rare person to have the title, bound by a specific UNCHANGING code. like Sages, samurai, and the constitution our president abides by. And "uber Sovereign" is the only type there is, anything else is a hollow sacrilegious use of the word.

As for perks, can't we apply points to different areas already? I do name ships after my civs leader so a great general or something would be nice.

 

DARCA

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March 3, 2014 1:03:59 AM from GalCiv II Forums GalCiv II Forums

Quoting Lucky Jack,


Quoting UnleashedElf, reply 5I don't know if a feudal system is appropriate for a space faring civilization

I find this a very interesting subject, that could be turned into a question: What form of government is best suited for a space faring civilization?

 

Well, looking at GC2, logically, it would progress from an Imperium to a democratic type of rule.

Quoting Lucky Jack,


There are some being related environmental variables that would have to be considered in answering this question:

1) What is the communication delay between the political center and the outer reaches of an empire?

2) What is the response time of central enforcement or military forces to the outer reaches of an empire?

3) For some forms of government, how much tendency is there for diversity of attitudes between the political center and the outer reaches of an empire?

4) Others. I just can't think of them at the moment.

For example, perhaps the speed of communication was limited by some factor, such as how fast a starship can travel, was the most influential factor. In that case, it would seem that a feudal form of government would be a better system. To get a feel for this, think about how the speed of communication on our world has changed over the last two to three centuries, and how the change in communication reach has changed how effective governance can be.

 

1. Presumably near instant in faster than light travel

 

2. The bottleneck would be the maximum speed of the vessels in question, which with Stellar Folding is probably quite fast

 

3. Probably the higher the more democratic

 

Starship travel would not be the bottleneck. The question is how fast FTL communications can travel.

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March 3, 2014 1:07:58 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting UnleashedElf,
I don't know if a feudal system is appropriate for a space faring civilization
Quoting UnleashedElf,
Well, looking at GC2, logically, it would progress from an Imperium to a democratic type of rule.

So you are taking about the game, not what the real future may bring?

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March 3, 2014 2:13:42 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Civilization use to not have different leaders of the same civilization I think that really enhanced the game. I think that would enhance this game. We already pick our abilities when we start, so that wouldn't do much. 

What I propose instead is having different abilities for different leaders for the same faction, but after that doing the same thing they do already. I think that would work better.

As far as the age of leaders I agree that in other games that span 5000 years this would be unrealistic. In galactic civilizations this would only be a few years.

As far as governments go I feel that different factions should have different government options. I heard conspiracy that their are about 210 people that are planning the one world democracy to be feudalism.

I would like to see republic and democracy to work more like their governments, but I could see why other people don't want this.

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March 3, 2014 4:00:29 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting DARCA1213,
Fate is Sovereign, the word is almost holy to me.

 

Hahaha out of context, this made me chuckle for a solid minute!

 

I like this idea as a separate game type, like Sins has the Flagship victory option, implementing the same thing in GC3 as a toggleable victory option except being able to change which ship is your flagship as your technology advances and you build a better ship!

 

Fate,

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March 3, 2014 10:46:01 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Lucky Jack,
So you are taking about the game, not what the real future may bring?

 

I think that if we look at the game descriptions of Terran, Altarian, and a few other of the "good" societies, a democratic society is very probable.

 

By contrast, the Drengin are probably an autocracy or a military junta.

 

Edit: I've opened up a thread on it:

http://forums.galciv3.com/452229/page/1/

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March 4, 2014 6:34:26 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Wow, when I wrote about 'sovereign' I was not referring to s ship, or any particular 'game counter.'  I was referring to an aspect of the flavor of a civ... that which defines its nature and characteristics and passes these characteristics on the the next generation.  Sorry for confusion.

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March 5, 2014 12:02:25 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

I agree with multiple leaders with different abilities for each faction. i would like to add that their could be political manuvering with the different leaders like in medieval total war. I think it would be a better 4x game for it. What I mean different leaders you would only pick one at the beginning of the game.

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March 5, 2014 12:30:45 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Like civ 4? Again we already can pick abilitys for our leaders. The best I could see being implemented is vice presidents as alternatives.

 

DARCA

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March 5, 2014 12:43:01 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Ok unless you customize you actually add ability to some predefined abilities for each faction.

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March 5, 2014 12:53:07 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

And you suggest?

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March 5, 2014 1:04:39 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Ok like civilization 4 there are multiple leaders to a civ. These leaders are absolute leaders. Each leader have different abilities. Ok Galactic civilizations has even more options on different abilities than civilization giving a better option for this. After you pick your leader this would define the presets that are instead of the faction it would be leader based. Multiple leaders for all factions like civilization. Unlike civilization you would add abilities to this. This would work in sandbox, but not really in the campaign. Isn't that what the post about.

What I would like to add to this is political intrigue like medieval total war. Another turn based strategy game. This can be added to the above idea, or the regular game. This would work with the campaign.I will have to admit that they would have to figure out sci fi intrigue because this is not a real world example. I'm talking about space not the fact that there is no intrigue in the real world.

I like both ideas.

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March 5, 2014 2:02:33 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Yes but in Civ 4 the leader was not a playable character in game. He/she just had bonuses that you could select.

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March 5, 2014 5:18:55 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Oh your right I would like my idea better.

Though this is similar to capture the king optional game in Civilizations 3 where you can caoture the leader. I would not like this as part of the main game. This could be a optional game victory condition. This would speed up the game though.

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March 5, 2014 6:22:01 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

If earth were to be captured there would be anarchy for one turn. Or any home world, how about that.

 

DARCA

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March 7, 2014 3:16:49 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

IMHO GC is not Tropico, so I barely see any room for El Presidente Soberano avatar flying around planets, improving their performance in GC environment. It could be interesting addition, to have "envoy" ship, probably not carrying supreme ruler, but rather just representing him.

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March 7, 2014 8:26:43 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting DARCA1213,

If earth were to be captured there would be anarchy for one turn. Or any home world, how about that.

 

DARCA

For some reason I can't narrow down in my mind, this doesn't make sense, unless you mean on the captured planet. Then I could see a short period where anarchy and rebellion against the invaders might prevail. And this would not be limited to the home planet.

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March 7, 2014 10:29:17 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

I need to slow down sometimes write clearly. and that post wasn't that time I did. (or now, I am having a terrible day to be honest )

the anarchy would be civ wide for one turn if the home world is lost. Nothing could be built for that time. Same thing for the the Elegant AIs. Civ had something similar, so I know it's not a new idea. And I typically don't like features that slow down the the game even for a few turns but I want to see the Korx squirm even more in when I kill them. (I really hate the korxs for some reason) and other reasons and things I just can't name at the moment.

 

DARCA

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March 8, 2014 12:27:00 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Hhhhmmm. I guess I could see a short period of disorder, but complete chaos? Maybe in some of the more authoritarian regimes, but I can't see it in a democracy, republic, or a federation. In these, I could see instead more of a coming together to build what is needed to crush the invader, a massive mobilization of the military industry. As far as a democratic, republic, or federation government is concerned I can't imagine them not having plans to ensure its continuation, even under the worst possible catastrophe.

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