Map hexes

By on October 15, 2013 6:46:06 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

SecretBaron

Join Date 02/2009
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Can there be more information on this:

"So we’re adding hexes, because they make better maps"

In GC2, there was no "unit" region. I actually liked this more than how Civilizations has it structured into finite cells. Thanks for listening.

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October 15, 2013 6:48:01 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

I'm not sure if I'm understanding what you mean.

In GalCiv II you had square tiles.  Now they're hex.  We went with hexes for a number of reasons including the beefing up of cultural warfare.

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October 15, 2013 8:02:07 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Umm Gal Civ 2 and finite tiles too. 16x16(?) tiled sectors arranged onto the map. With hexes you can expand as large as you want. Civ5 maps were small mainly because of hardware limitations. 

For tile based games hexes are much better than squares. Squares systems are generally used in computer games because they are easier to program. Which I'm speaking from the point of view of someone trying to code his own hex based game. Anyways, movement and range are better handled in hexes. The distance from the center of one hex is the same no matter what hex you choose. With squares if you move across the diagonals you are in effect moving about 41% faster and shooting 41% farther across the diagonals (or square root of 2). Plus hexes look sexier and considering the "city" tile is a planet it hexes just fit better than the squares. 

I am stoked by this change. It's the main reason I stuck with Civ5 vs Civ4 (vanilla days) even though Civ 5 originally blew Drengin balls because of a host of issues that it had when it released. Please do not start a debate on this the game as it is now is a zillion times better then release. Civ4, GalCiv2, and Elemental all where relatively terrible at release verses the state they ended up in. Hopefully you can read this. I'm limiting the time I can play around on forums tonight. 

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October 15, 2013 9:33:51 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

I'm so glad to hear that hexes are in. Still think Elemental would have been better with them as well.

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October 15, 2013 9:39:06 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

squares were stupid ... hexes are Very welcomed !   and thnx!

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October 15, 2013 9:42:43 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Hexes?  I thought this was a sci-fi setting, not fantasy...

Edit:  Quick reference for where I'm going

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October 15, 2013 11:55:02 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Das123,

I'm so glad to hear that hexes are in. Still think Elemental would have been better with them as well.

I very much agree.  Hexes would have been great for elemental.  I am guessing that since GC3 will be getting them, though, a future expansion or sequel of Elemental will as well

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October 16, 2013 8:55:39 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Hexes are superior in every way, except perhaps more work for Stardock with programming.

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October 16, 2013 9:11:37 AM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

HEXES HEXES HEXES....

 

Can we please have galaxies which stretch for seeral thousands of stars?

 Add: Olympics tournaments for a year in GC3 huge galaxies with spectator mods for watchers.

add: GNN reports automaticaly created for players and spectators.

add: espionage and diplomatic options that no other games have so far - forcing researchers into dead end tech tree...conventions between allies and races, with punishments for break ups...Galactic trade markets, which physicaly exist in game and are not easily attacked....galactic space monsters? MOAR relics, artifacts and hidden neutral berserking robo monsters....

Space nature events, which can be modified in a techonology run, like Supernova evacuation of planet, supernova and shield of planet...add more races, 10 more, no add 500 mor races....use Saga of Fallen suns for race ideas - hydrgues, Faeros,  Illdirans connected to one Emperor thorugh psy links,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Saga_of_Seven_Suns

 

add everything...and a kitchen sink.

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October 16, 2013 10:31:19 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

I think what the OP meant by ""no "unit" region"" is that you could click on any small area and the ship or whatever would go to that very precise position, even if it doesn't line up perfectly with the grid. With hexes it gives off the impression that you will have to click on a hex and the object will have to fit within that hex area, dead center. I think he means that you lose the ability to place things exactly the way you want when you have to stick to the hex setup.

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October 16, 2013 11:41:19 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

That would be incorrect, kengrant.  GalCiv2 had square tiles, you couldn't place anything between tiles.

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October 19, 2013 2:27:39 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Oh no. I hoped so much that the map would be 3D this time that I would have accepted both cube boxes or truncated octahedra. But it is once again 2D. This is not Civilization which is bound to a planet's surface. This is a game set in open space and therefore there is a third dimension.

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October 19, 2013 4:19:58 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

The third dimension isn't as important to me as much as having a challenging AI to play against and the opportunity to match wits with another human player. plus 2D map really doesn't detract from simulating a galaxy like our own either, the galaxy is flat enough that travelling from planet to planet and star to star is effectively on a 2D plane anyway.

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October 19, 2013 7:14:18 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Assuming that the galaxy is a spiral/sombrero yes. you could possibly represent a 3d universe in 2d, when you consider that the map (at least in galciv 2) is in relative units based on hyperdrive speed. The closer you are to stars or other strong gravitational forces, the slower your FTL drives are. So in effect, the 3d portion of the map would be in areas you could travel faster in anyway.... so you could easily create a flat map that realistically represents the 3d one.

Regardless There was one game I've played called star Ruler, that does the 3d map thing; and it's a disaster. Thank Goodness you can turn that off when it generates a map. 

I for one am glad it's still flat! And I'm loving the introduction of Hexes! I'm more used to them from mechwarrior and other games anyways.

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October 22, 2013 12:37:07 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Civ5 hexes had a big flaw: They combined overly large hexes with the concept of one-unit-per-hex.  If they had changed the scale so that the current hexes got divided into 7 smaller hexes (and cities stayed the same scale, but took up 7 hexes) then the one-unit-per-hex concept would have been fine.  As a result, you had huge bottlenecks in a lot of terrain and the scale of units vs cities didn't really make much sense.

 

I don't envision hexes causing the same problem in the GC3 system because you can put multiple units on the same hex.  I definitely prefer it over square tiles because it makes for a more organic looking map.

 

That being said, I was never entirely happy with GC2 galaxy sizes.  I have to play on immense, with sparse / dense start clusters so that there is a lot of empty area between island clusters.  Which adds some "terrain" strategy to the game.  Sometimes you can't make the leap from one island to another without putting extended-range modules on the ship, forcing trade-offs in other areas.  Or you have to bridge your way across using starbases.

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October 22, 2013 12:58:15 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

I'm happy for the switch to hexes too - hexes are vastly superior.

 

Quoting wuphonsreach,

Civ5 hexes had a big flaw: They combined overly large hexes with the concept of one-unit-per-hex.

 

Maybe they could've scaled it differently and made it even better but I've liked Civ 5 and its hexes since vanilla.  I like 1UPT for Civ too.  I don't think 1UPT necessarily works in GalCiv but GalCiv has logistics limits to counter the way "stacks of doom" existed in older Civ.

 

Quoting wuphonsreach,
That being said, I was never entirely happy with GC2 galaxy sizes.  I have to play on immense, with sparse / dense start clusters so that there is a lot of empty area between island clusters.  Which adds some "terrain" strategy to the game.

 

I'm interested in seeing how they tweak this element.  I often generate similarly spaced out tight cluster immense to get some space.  One reason is due to lack of "borders" or control.  It'd be cool to see something like a boundry/my space thing implemented since it'd add into diplo and possibly open up new tech lines

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October 22, 2013 1:23:06 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Civ 5 could have done something where they spread out the citys over multiple hexes. Kind of like what GC dose with it's planets. You have all the planet facilities each on a different tile. One of the reasons I think that  single unit per hex might work better in GC then it did in Civ5.

I would also use the distant stars tight clusters set up. For much the same reason. I kind of thought of the space between stars as a space ocean because you needed to design ships with extra components to cross it.

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October 22, 2013 2:50:25 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

while the concept of a 3d map is cool and ill admit I've thought about it from time to time i think it would be completely impractical in any form of UI

and would probably need some kind of 3d interface like the occulus rift or holograms

it might be able to work in the small scale such as a battle viewer or combat tactical map

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October 22, 2013 2:59:41 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Age of Wonders had a better hex implementation than Civ 5 did. The hexes were much smaller, cities took up multiple hexes, and you got a LOT more movement.

So it can be done better, Civ 5 is just a bad example of a lot of things.

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October 22, 2013 3:07:13 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting Nikioko,

Oh no. I hoped so much that the map would be 3D this time that I would have accepted both cube boxes or truncated octahedra. But it is once again 2D. This is not Civilization which is bound to a planet's surface. This is a game set in open space and therefore there is a third dimension.

 

The Universe does not have 3 dimensions, nor does it have only 4, it has 10 or even as many as 11 dimensions my friend.

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October 22, 2013 4:40:26 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Would love to see hexes in a future iteration of <don't call it Elemental anymore> ... especially tactical battles.

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October 22, 2013 5:26:50 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting NorsemanViking,

The Universe does not have 3 dimensions, nor does it have only 4, it has 10 or even as many as 11 dimensions my friend.

 

The universe would make more sense if it did have 10 or 11 dimensions, but this is still only speculation, the theory is sound, but theres no way to test it, yet

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October 22, 2013 7:33:11 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

I'm curious to know if and how they're doing sectors, quadrants, etc. If the boundries will bisect hexes or whatever.

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October 22, 2013 7:47:27 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting chuck1es,

I'm curious to know if and how they're doing sectors, quadrants, etc. If the boundries will bisect hexes or whatever.

My guess is they won't have them.

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October 22, 2013 10:17:32 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

Quoting chuck1es,

I'm curious to know if and how they're doing sectors, quadrants, etc. If the boundries will bisect hexes or whatever.

 

Wouldn't they just be boundaries around existing hexes, and be more meaningful since with hexes you can create more fluid boundaries that actually make sense.

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October 22, 2013 10:51:08 PM from Galactic Civilizations III Forums Galactic Civilizations III Forums

I'm guessing sectors will be retained, just to keep large maps manageable.

Hex-shaped quadrants would make sense. I'll be interested to see how it's done.

 

I must add I'm very happy about the promise of still-larger galaxies. GCII Ultimate supported up to 22*22 sectors, or 484 sectors total. With 12*12 tiles (?) per sector, that's a total of 22*22*12*12 tiles, or 69,696 individual tiles. Looking forward to see what Stardock does with this! Brad, teasers or info would be welcome.

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