None of which applies in Elemental where you are trying repopulate the earth. A low population growth rate is bad economically period, it's the entire reason we have immigration in the first place. I'm not going to get into a arguement on the pros and cons of immigration because it's not at all relevant here.

Which is solved by having more kids to support them?

Anyway I would like to reiterate that I have no preference here to debate. I just think that small reduction to population growth and large boost to available workforce(specialists) would accurately represent a Egalitarian society.

Oi, but I can't remember how long we've been agreeing on this general point. It's especially valid given the minimalism of the canon faction information. I need some in-game explanations of why patriarchy is dominant to help me accept the weird ways 'egalitarianism' has worked out so far. Don't even want to get started about the prominence of Procipinee and the lack of matriarchal anything...

Listen. Guys. Making this trait cost 0 points is so easy, it's not even funny.

Yes, it would be nice if it had a bigger in-game effect, but you could say the same about almost all of the traits.

Amen. Sure, they could spend a lot of time and effort creating a realistic and complicated set of tradeoffs for Egalitarian societies, but do we really want them to? Consider that people complained about being able to suggest a homosexual marriage (even though the AI will not accept it), and I really don't think we want to get into the practical effects gender roles have on a society, no matter how you do it most people are going to disagree and some will even be offended.

Not to mention that just about every aspect of the game is badly needing more depth, more complexity, more interesting tradeoffs - and as easy as it is to think up possible improvements, I imagine it's somewhat more difficult to implement and balance them. Of all the aspects of the game that need some love, is the Egalitarian trait really the one we want Stardock to focus on? Seriously, just make it free and be done with it.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed reading the real-world inspired debate, and think most game systems could do with a little more realistic inspiration. In a perfect world with unlimited funding and developer time and no people that get offended at the strangest things, I'd really like to see a fully fleshed-out "society type" option with things like Egalitarian (and something nearly the opposite, let's call it "Spartanism," and a dozen other choices) as real and interesting possibilities. Better yet, it should be something that you can change as the game progresses, a la Civ4 "civics". But practically speaking, I don't see it happening, and honestly don't really want it to when there are more straightforward and less real-world-argument-inducing aspects of the game that could use the attention.

Hmmm. Apparently the only exception is yourself? You have kids and grandkids all the time. Anyway it's a good point so I will reevaluate my position and say that on top of allowing female soldiers Egalitarianism should give a boost to maximum specialists without a penalty. Fair enough? Hopefully this in uncontentious enough that the devs may actually consider implementing it.

Yes. Yes we do want this. This is what makes creating your own faction fun. It also adds more layers to the strategic depth of the game.

This is my last OT post. No responses will come for anything written about it!

Immigration is absolutely a net good, period full stop. It's pretty much win win win all the way to the bank. Low skill, high skill, no skill doesn't matter. That said, if the welcoming society isn't, well, welcoming, it ends up in the situation France and Germany are in -- tons of jobless, poorly educated and irate immigrants. America might not be coping perfectly, but it's doing a heck of a better job than most of the other major players -- immigrants who somehow manage to make it into this barb wired country have a reasonably good chance of success, where success is defined as a higher standard of living than the one they left behind. That said, America does have the ass backwards policy of subsidizing foreign graduate/doctoral degrees and then, upon completion of their studies, rejecting the requests of that same group for green cards. I mean, hello, we just paid to educate those people and they want to live here, let them!

Population growth is a net good so long as it doesn't affect the dependency ratio. Once things start getting lopsided, problems emerge. The solution is most certainly not  have more kids -- thanks to the lead time on child production, you'll just end up making the problem significantly worse in the short term, and repeating it in the long term.

Immigration is so gosh darned awesome and a special case because immigrants are usually people who A. had the balls/ovies to swap countries, no mean feat, B. are committed to working hard to better themselves (see A), and C. overwhelmingly adults. It's like people are popping into existence de novo! No paying for schooling, natal care, any of that. Fully formed (sans the language barrier, four to eight years of Spanish education really ought to be required of the average American, it would improve our country soo very much) productive citizens literally from day one.

My history major comment was intended as a zing. If anyone was offended, well, sucks to be you I guess? Feel free to take a pot shot at me! I recommend mocking my hair, it is quite mediocre.

Ya know, normally the pick up line about needing to repopulate the earth is supposed to be one of the cheesy blow off ones that gets you slapped, Not the literal truth.

Just saw this (still reading through the thread).

I like your rationale about a production bonus, but with reduced growth for Egalitarian!  It makes sense, and has concrete game mechanisms that are easy to implement.

Also, on Death Worship, again reducing the pop growth makes sense.

Good thinking man!

 AGREED

Solution, because I'm in the holiday spirit: 

1) Create an XML file in in your mydocuments/games/elemental/mods directory.

2)Paste the following into that file:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>
<AbilityBonuses>
 <DataChecksum NoParse="1">
  <Ignore>DisplayName,BonusUnits</Ignore>
  <Translate>DisplayName,BonusUnits</Translate>
 </DataChecksum>

<AbilityBonus InternalName="Egalitarian">
    <AbilityBonusType>Player</AbilityBonusType>

    <AbilityBonusOption InternalName = "EgalitarianBonus1">
      <DisplayName>Egalitarian</DisplayName>
      <Description>Can design male and female warriors.</Description>
      <Bonus>10</Bonus>
      <Cost>0</Cost>
      <GameModifier>
        <ModType>Player</ModType>
        <Attribute>AbilityBonus</Attribute>
        <StrVal>A_Egalitarian</StrVal>
        <Value>1.0</Value>
      </GameModifier>
    </AbilityBonusOption>

  </AbilityBonus>

3) Egalitarian is now a free, cosmetic trait for custom factions. If you want the option for female units, now you have them at no cost. If you don't, ignore steps 1 and 2.

4) If you want a non-zero cost trait that actually does something, I'll draw up a custom xml for that too, to the best of my ability.