Bioware. I've just been thinking about them quite a bit.

They do have their little 'formula' of starting location -> 4 areas to explore -> End Sequence. It does get kind of obvious. There are interviews with the Bioware founders btw where they mention they've done research on how many locations people can really get involved with in a game before they stop caring, but still, shake it up a little guys.

Dragon Age. I really enjoyed it, on my first play through. I've never managed a second although I've tried a few times. This is in part because the unbelieveable stupidity and agonizingly out-of-character betrayal of Loghain keeps staring you in the face the whole time and it never does become convincing. I start to wonder why I'm saving a world full of such idiots.

Mass Effect. I'm going to be the voice of dissent here. I really enjoyed ME 1, I've replayed it many times. Some of my best gaming dollars spent. I did not enjoy ME 2 as much to be honest. I think the gameplay changes went too far and I'd much rather have seen the inventory system fixed rather than stripped out. BUT! The ME trilogy is doing something no game company in the history of ever has even attempted. To make a trilogy that tracks your choices and save states across three titles. There were dozens of choices preserved from ME 1 carrying over into 2 from minor things like how you treated your fanboy to "Who is running the Galaxy?". All these choices and dozens more made in ME 2 are then carried over into ME 3. That means they have a game which right from the get go has to deal with hundreds of possible states at it's starting point. It's no wonder they limited choices during ME 2. Did I like the limits presented? No. Would I have done things differently? Yes. Although I will say that if I do finally get to kill the Illusive man in ME 3 it will all have been worth while. If I don't ... I'll probably be done with Bioware, I've never hated any videogame character as much as I hate that smarmy, manipulative bastard.

This, by the way, is a good thing. In Bioware's language I'm 'emotionally invested' in the character of the Illusive Man. The fact that I want to hit him with a dinosaur killer is besides the point.

Bioware does some things very well. Characters are their strongest point. Everybody loved Wrex from ME 1, you feel bad if you can't save Talitha, Liara is an adorable blue dorkette. Plot? You don't look to Bioware for amazing plots. Good plots? Yes. Solid ones even. But they do come off the standard racks. Same thing with scripting and pacing. Good, maybe very good, but not amazing. But they do very little actual screwing up as far as I can tell, and that is kind of amazing. Who else can be relied on to make solid, enjoyable RPGs these days?

I highly doubt you played BG2 at all. BG1 wasn't all that great, but 2 was amazing.

And, anyone who claims that a storyline in any modern RPG even approaches that of Planescape: Torment is completely and utterly wrong.

Still you, man.

I don't understand fanboys. It seems a stupid way to give up consumer rights.

I like you you just ptroed to portray your opinion as absolute fact, since my first post didn't make it I'll say it again.

If you don't like it don't buy it, kotor and jade empires were 2 fucking amazing games as far as I am concerned.

I think OP is wrong. Like others have said everystory is pretty much a retelling retooling of older stories.  I think alot of the hate towards bioware is the stupid  modern feeling that if its the most popular it must be no good. Over and over I see people trying to belittle good games, movies, ect just because they are popular. 

Except Avatar that is junk.

See. I think THIS is the main reason people can't see video games as art. In the video game world, it's a constant rat race to get to the next prettiest game, instead of trying to develop the next greatest game.

Baldur's Gate and Planescape Torment are works of art in the gaming world. They're amazing regardless of the age or time. A book doesn't stop being good and neither does a movie, simply because there're books with better printing quality and movies with a higher resolution.

DA and ME are the typical action movies of the RPG world. Utterly forgettable. I couldn't even really identify any themes within the stories for analysis. Compare with Planescape Torment (identity, redemption, immortality etc as well as avoiding as many RPG stereotypes as possible) and Baldur's Gate 2 (becoming the monster, morality, doing evil for the sake of good etc).

Wait, no, I think I've identified two themes in both DA and ME. Interviews go something along the lines of this: "TITS AND VOCIE ACTING YOU CAN GET TITS AND THERE IS VOICE ACTING BEST GAME EVER ALSO MORAL CHOICES"

???

I did say that KotOR was WHEN the games started to go downhill. Never played Jade Empires.

You've not played enough Bioware games. They are the exact same story. Every. Single. Time.

My point exactly.

No, they're really not. Ebert was pretty much right, a lot of games AREN'T art. Just like a terribad movie without any value isn't a piece of art, your typical game also isn't. Point to me a game you view as art.

You keep repeating the same thing that doesn't apply to the discussion at hand at all. You sound like a broken record. It seems you think it's an amazing piece of wisdom. It isn't.

I'm going to ask you to leave the thread, since you're going all over the place and making absolutely zero sense. It's awkward to watch.

Weren't you then one who said Ebirt was a idiot; which is a truer statement then most tend to accept?

Art was is a vague term with in itself; art is a large category which derives from cooking and singing, all the way to painting, sketching, modeling. The phrase art itself is a living breathing entity forever which is forever changing and growing in way both expected and unexpected.

Then again that is my perception of it; I know people who do not accept people that do commercial work with there skills as artist at all.

No a great amount of wisdom is telling you to stfu and get over it, but no one is doing that.

Those games are virtually unplayable today. In terms of hardware and controls input. Sorry, but BG and Planescape are games that do not age well.

And sorry, even Mass Effect's wikipedia article even says it explores themes!

[quote who="Autarkhos" reply="114" id="2681962"]


No, they're really not. Ebert was pretty much right, a lot of games AREN'T art. Just like a terribad movie without any value isn't a piece of art, your typical game also isn't. Point to me a game you view as art.

You keep repeating the same thing that doesn't apply to the discussion at hand at all. You sound like a broken record. It seems you think it's an amazing piece of wisdom. It isn't.

I'm going to ask you to leave the thread, since you're going all over the place and making absolutely zero sense. It's awkward to watch.
[/quote]

Very true. Games are not considered art by pretty much anyone outside of the gaming industry. It doesn't really matter how you define art, even if it includes games, the art world does not accept it.

Your attitude is what is wrong with the gaming industry today. You've got the attention span of a pea, and art is timeless. If you can't appreciate what came before, you really have no business trying to defend Bioware today because I am sure tomorrow there will be a new bright shinny bobble for you to play with tomorrow.

Any games you don't like you consider art?