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Arthanis
Volt_Cruelerz
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Reply #126 January 31, 2010 5:48:25 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I was under the impression that these suggestions would replace the random speed debuff.

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Arthanis
Kitkun
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Reply #127 January 31, 2010 6:15:58 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Random?  It applies every time.

 

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Arthanis
-Ue_Carbon
Join Date 07/2008
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Reply #128 January 31, 2010 6:20:01 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Random as in its random that the GRG has a speed debuff....random in it came from left field when the Devs added it.

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Arthanis
Kitkun
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Reply #129 January 31, 2010 6:24:22 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Oh. I'm slow today, it seems.

 

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Arthanis
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Reply #130 February 1, 2010 5:51:07 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I don't like this "random speed debuff" too. It don't fit concept of BigBadGun.

Anyway, I am not sure if mitigation reduction I suggest is posible in this game engine. So let's ignore it.

 

Ok, so what about this kind of GRG:

- 300/600/900 Damage ignoring Shield Mitigation

- 60 AM cost

- 20s cooldown

- No longer slow target, no longer reduce mitigation, no longer interrupt target

 

?

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Arthanis
Volt_Cruelerz
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Reply #131 February 1, 2010 6:53:41 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ehh...  At that point I'd almost want to go back to my idea of:

-300/600/900 Standard Damage

-75/70/65 AM

-20 Second Cooldown

-Reduces SM by 5%/10%/15% for 20 seconds.  Does not stack.

 

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Arthanis
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Reply #132 February 1, 2010 9:06:11 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I had an different ideas too. My purpose is not forcing everyone to love my ideas, but to find consensus between many ideas. Is this ~final idea acceptable in your eyes or not?

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Arthanis
N3rull
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Reply #133 February 1, 2010 12:06:30 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I think both reply 130 and 131 ideas are relatively fine. The first is strong for ignoring shield mitigation, thus can do a lot of damage versus high level caps. The second is fleet-useful for the mitigation debuff. I ain't sure if 15% is not a little too badass, maybe closer to 12% would be better (or reducing the duration of this debuff to 10 seconds. Against 10 level caps, a 15% mitigation reduction means 60% increased damage! For 3AM/sec it would be very strong even without the 900 damage).

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Arthanis
-Ue_Carbon
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Reply #134 February 1, 2010 12:42:53 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I prefer Volts idea. Being more of a fleet kinda guy anyhow. Why wouldnt the instant reduction work btw? If you per se reduced the max migitation by ___ for 1 second then it should do what your thinking of go back up as the target took damage. No?

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Arthanis
Ryat
Join Date 06/2006
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Reply #135 February 1, 2010 12:57:25 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I as well prefer Volts idea, it makes the Kol more of a fleet style ship and improves its 1v1 abilities all at once

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Arthanis
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Reply #136 February 1, 2010 2:22:16 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ok, so everything I want to add to Volt idea is AM cost reduction to 60/60/60. It is 3 AM/s, and Kol after Finest Hour buff is able to support it without loosing all its AM in first minutes of battle.

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Arthanis
Volt_Cruelerz
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Reply #137 February 1, 2010 2:30:39 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

@N3: Yeah... 4%/8%/12% probably would be better and not quite so OP...

@Carbon: I don't know..  That might be how you could do it, but I don't know if would automatically take it back up later...

@Arthanis: This is an edit btw...  At level 3, it has 65 AM...  I just don't want it to be too cheap...  But idk...  Maybe 70/65/60?

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Arthanis
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Reply #138 February 1, 2010 3:01:48 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Lets say:

- 60 AM cost

- 20s recharge

- 300/600/900 damage (normal)

- Max Mitigation on target reduced by 5%/10%/15% for 10s (not stackable)

- No longer reduce target speed

 

Ok now? 

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Arthanis
Volt_Cruelerz
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Reply #139 February 1, 2010 4:24:36 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah..  Either that or 4%/8%/12%.  Probably 4%/8%/12% as the lowered AM cost means that it could be a little too powerful.  Either way, I like it.

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Arthanis
N3rull
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Reply #140 February 1, 2010 4:29:50 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Seems strong enough, and not OP enough to lick a Marza. I'd say fine.

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Arthanis
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Reply #141 February 1, 2010 6:03:13 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Added.

I've also changed Flak burst cooldown to 10 across all levels. After cost decrease (IMO critical), slightly increased cooldown of highest level of this ability is completely justified.

 

 

Lvl10 Kol After all changes:

Gauss Rail Gun: -3.00 AM/s

Flack Burst: -5.00 AM/s

Adaptive ForceField: -1.71 AM/s

Finest Hour: +1.66 AM/s

 

Total: -8.05 AM/s

With lvl AM regeneration: -6.58 AM/s

 

Still the most expensive to use in terms of AM Battleship in game, but at least no longer insanely stupidly expensive

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Arthanis
Volt_Cruelerz
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Reply #142 February 1, 2010 10:28:57 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I must say that I am satisfied with this.  It complies with all criteria that I set up for it:

  1. It must not be a weak airsoft gun.  It needs some punch.
  2. It must not be buffed by a dramatic increase in direct power.
  3. It must not be buffed by a dramatic decrease in AM cost.
  4. It must have a moderate cooldown.
  5. It must still allow for the Dunov FF synergy.
  6. It must still require the Kol to lean on other ships for support.
  7. It must replace the stupid speed debuff.
  8. It must not be OP at the beginning of the battle.
  9. It must not be OP during the battle.
  10. It must not be OP after the battle.
  11. It must not be UP during the battle.
  12. It must not deal damage directly to hull.
  13. It must still require the Kol to use its AM conservatively.
  14. It must give the Kol an ability to aid its surrounding fleet.
  15. It must give the player an incentive to buy a Kol.
  16. It must give the player an incentive to use GRG.
  17. It must be unique and not a copy of another ability in the game.
  18. It must at least be somewhat explainable by lore.
  19. It must be balanced.
  20. It must be agreed upon by a fairly large portion of the community through a consensus.

 

Now that we have complied with everything on the list, what's next?

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Arthanis
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Reply #143 February 2, 2010 3:06:45 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

GRG: With these new stats IM GRG are slightly too weak. IMO damage should  be increses to 400/800/1200. Without shield bypassing and with 20s cooldown it will not hurt... Really. ATM it is very weak 15/30/45 DPS... If we add targets Shield Mitigation and armor... IMO 20/40/60 DPS is still relatively small value.

 

Another idea:

What do you think of increaseing max Mitigation value for all caps to 70% (from 65%)? Advent thanks to upgrade&culture bonus will get maximum value of 80% (from 75%). It will slightly increase Caps survivability in large-scale battles without making any negative impact on game balance.

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Arthanis
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Reply #144 February 2, 2010 3:06:56 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

edit.

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Arthanis
N3rull
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Reply #145 February 2, 2010 5:05:23 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

- Flak Burst: Antimatter cost reduced to 50 (from 100)

- Flak Burst: Cooldown changed to 10/10/10 (from 12/10/8)
NO!

Flak burst should NOT be spammable like this! It completely annihilates enemy SC presence by brutal destruction, Kol should NOT be able to wipe all enemy SC in 10 seconds (burst now, burst after CD) and pay measly 100 AM for it.

That's not just a fat NAY, it's a veto! No no no no nO! I oppose!
If Kol can annihilate all the enemy SC for 100 AM in 10 seconds and for the entire fight (replacements get slaughtered by focused flak fire even from a small amount of flak frigs), then Kortul's weapon Jam should cost 20-30 AM and be spammable forever, because it's just a temporary solution and has to be chained throughout the whole fight unlike FB.

that 50 AM drop on Flak burst is too badass.

 THE MAIN ISSUE THAT YOU FAIL TO NOTICE ABOUT FLAK BURST is that counting its AM/sec cost is pointless. That is because two flak bursts solve the SC issue completely. They do not have to be spammed like AFF to stay alive throughout the fight, like GRG to keep doing damage. Once you kill all strikecraft, or the vast majority, the rest are just pests to be taken care of by a handful of flak frigs. Issue solved.

Flak burst is a two-shot I-win button against strikecraft, its use has to be well considered. 50 AM cost for that is like making missile barrage a 50 AM, 30 sec cooldown ability. No wayz.

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Arthanis
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Reply #146 February 2, 2010 5:45:17 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

100 AM/ 8s is joke too. What about decreasing cost by giving it further cooldown increase? I hate idea of all "Magic buttons" being super expensive in use but breaking game balance is some situations - these abilities should be more "user-friendly" for both people who use them and and people who had these abilities used against them. Ability is atm UP/imba/not fine. something must be done to fix it.

 

Random idea for now: Cooldown increased to 20s/20s/20s. What about this?

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Arthanis
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Reply #147 February 2, 2010 6:04:00 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

That would be wrong as well because SC will largely manage to regenerate, or cause a lot of damage.

Still, better than 10 sec with 50AM.

I would leave the ability as is though. No need to increase cooldown alone, as that means nerfing the ability that is just fine. You may attempt to eliminate all enemy strikecraft in the vincinity in 10 seconds IF you sacrifice 200 AM. Or you may keep them permanently damaged (and thus easier for your flak frigs/fighters to handle) by increasing the delay between each FB.
Either way, that's just yet another ability that IMO is fine, just not to be left on autocast.

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Arthanis
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Reply #148 February 2, 2010 6:13:33 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I will wait for more feedback, then I will possibly remove it from list.

What about 2 other buffs:

- GRG damage to 400/800/1200 (from 300/600/900) to make this ability slightly more viable in terms of damage too.

- Caps max mitigation increased to 70% (from 65%) to increase their survivability in large battles

?

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Arthanis
Volt_Cruelerz
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Reply #149 February 2, 2010 6:33:11 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

FB: Fine as it is in the game.  IMO, we don't need to change it.

GRG: Now it is a support ability to aid the surrounding fleet late game or increase the damage your own weapons deal early game.  I'd say its fine.

SM: I don't know...  This has been suggested before, but I didn't really have a response then and I don't have one now.

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Arthanis
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Reply #150 February 2, 2010 7:02:03 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Caps already start with 65% shield mitigation that increases by 1.111111% per level up to roughly 75% on level ten. Bumping that up by 5% will make for 80% final shield mitigation or what, 85% for Advent in their culture?

This would make endgame caps completely unkillable (that's a further 25% damage reduction!) by any standard weapon while phase missiles would become OP-dly strong against caps and would need further balancing.

That's thrusting your hand into a very deep pool of balance poo. Stay away pl0x.

Our last GRG suggestion is fine after all that heated discussion we had before. Suggesting a 33% damage buff AGAIN is repeating yourself. And I don't want to repeat myself. 900 damage every 20 sec is respectable when coupled with a 10 seconds 15% mitigation nerf. Leave it alone

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