i think this is a somewhat different debate but ok here goes:
For me its obvious gaming in general has come into a situation where the influence/power of customers has tobe improved for it to evolve.
What can be observed (check the l4d-l4d2 argument or things that happen in mmos, the batz war in lineage for instance) is that the situation where players are all powerless can be compared to early industrial society.Only after the "invention" of Unions mass production seemed to reach its full potential.Especially in multiplayer games the player itself is an asset of the game.
Gaming has left its feudal stage where it was a dark corner where only the geeks and the nerds hung out, now it has become a mainstream business it has to prove that it is mature enough to cater to customer demands and needs.In some mmos people make their living,fall in love and have complex social relations, which have become a genuine part of the product. Leaving them powerless frustrates the further development of gaming.
If u compare games (software in general) to other products i think no other industry has such lack of customer protection (laws) such blatant monopolys (price agreements) and general disrespect for customers (plain lying to sell games, and or releasing bad/unfinished products) as the gaming industry has now.
Dont get me wrong im not saying all this is on Demigod to blame, its just a game that bears the symptoms of games in these times.
I just think its a pity it seems so hard to make a real good game especially when demigod seems to have all the right ingredients; awesome graphics, superb gameplay and a ton of ideas from the community.
The solution isnt that hard either; just respect your customers and give them what they need (A bloody sdk in case of demigod i think), because it is not company vs customer but we are in this together.
just had to say this
Kudos to you Antikid. And +1Karma
A very intelligent post.
This really summerizes the problems of gaming culture today.
Especially the "democratic" twist with games is a very true statement in my opinion.
To be honest I think Frogboy/Stardock/GPG are some of the persons that are PRO "Union"/new industry/ new gaming society.
Their way to deal with copy right and drm stuff is great and should be an possitive example for other companies.
But like in every change there are problems with the process of changing or new problems that arise.
In my humble opinion Frogboy has noble ideals but nevertheless he missunderstands the Community in many things.
He describes the demigod community as toxic.
Because of two things:
- Community wants specific things and they speak those wishes out.
No matter what we do for the game post release, it'll never be enough. I think that's clear. No matter what we do or what we get GPG to do the best we'll ever get from the Demigod community is "well it should have had <insert feature> to begin with" with the typical response being "Well that's nice but what about <insert thing they want next here>?"
We want to have inluence in a democratic way. Thats why we ask for certain things. Because we know what we want, and also what this game needs to get great. Like in a Democracy the mass makes better choices then individual persons, because they are subjectiv no matter how objectiv you want to be. The mass is allways objective because of the sheer number of different opinions.
Sure, some people phrase their wishes in a unfriendly allmost blackmailing kind. And some wishes are impossible, gross or just not wishes of the majority.
But still all people just take their time because they LIKE your product. No one would waste even 5 minutes to make a post about his whishes if he wouldn't think there is a slim chance of implemention and if he didn't want that this product gets good, famous and sold many times.
And here is a little gap between us, the community and them (GPG/Stardock).
Many bugs, problems, balance issues, great Ideas were suggested MANY TIMES, and often even in Beta. Nearly none have been implemented.
And GPG didn't answered one time. OK today I knew this isn't GPGs forum its "JUST" the demigod forum so perhaps thats the reason for no answers, but it doesn't takes away the problem of no communication.
E.g.: Idol Bug, Sedna 30% Bug, Number of Demigods, Items in general, Balance issues, Assassins vs Generals.
- The Community is not a homogen group.
"Then, you get into the game and you get people who grief other users in games, swear at them, create pre-mades without identifying what they are."
In a large community there are allways different peer groups or however you want to call them.
In demigod that could be Noobs, Casuals, Competive Players, Griefers.
And you should handle them all or there will be problems.
Demigod is more like a casual game but still there are many Competetive Players.
BUT they have no ways to play competetive, especially not as teams.
That results what many, Frogboy included, describe as "create pre-mades without identifying what they are".
But Skirmish and Pantheon are almost unplayable (because of ping, sim speed and proxies) and are not thought nor suitable for teams & competive players.
If someone makes a game "premade vs premade" no one joins. If you make a game "No Noobs" or "only Pros" in 50% a noobs joins. So even if only 2 friends with average "skill" play custom together it ends in pub stomping.
Is this the fault of the players, the community? I don't think so.
Noobs and Casuals also have a hard time to have fun in Demigod. Partially because of said competeive/team problem, partially because there are no noob protections.
There is no viewable player rank or rating ingame and it's a pain to look up in everyones stats in pantheon and search if they play in premades. Pantheon is absuable via double join. Many Builds and Heroes are underpowered which lowers the chance to win as a Noob/Casual. And Skirmish hardly gets players or is just not playable (proxies...).
So I really hope we all could communicate more.
The community should try to be not that offending against the devs.
And the devs should try to listen more and should TALK to us. (I'm talking of GPG only here).
Maybe We ALL (Players & Devs) and Demigod can be an example of the new gaming society. And perhaps we all can get our benefits from that.
For more democracy in gaming!
