I also want those things too BDBF.. but I'll choose character and honesty over any of them..

Maybe I'm just old school, I believe in doing the right thing.

Why aren't you voting btw?  Your address says Togo, but if you're an American citizen you should just vote by mail/absentia.  You seem to feel strongly enough about the issues, but you mentioned earlier you can't or couldn't vote? 

Sincerely, I'm asking, what's the scoop, oh master skinner?

You're just a die hard conservative apparently vStyler.  If those are your inclinations then suit yourself. 

I however, don't agree that this Ayers association is anything unsavory, ominus or dangerous inspite of all the RNC attempts to convince Americans that they should believe it to be.  It is 100% a contrived issue because his assocation with Ayers was harmless.  Ayers was a college professor at the time, he had long since served his time in prison and had long ended his prior domestic violence acts.  Yet because Ayers hosted a fund raising coffee at his house for BO people want to distort the implications to generate fear about OB.  I think the unethical conduct in this matter is the conduct of those who seek to deny the truth and exploit a harmless situation for their own gain.

BO has plenty of character and plenty of leadership.

Because you are doubtful you want others to be doubtful also.  You seem to enjoy a degree of fear mongering.

BO isn't President yet.  You keep creating bogey men.  Phantom issues and the like. The problems GWB et all, brought about were real problems that we all here lived through and they will continue to cause us problems for years.  What, the Iraq War isn't a real enough problem for you?  I haven't posted endless nonsense about McCain.  You've posted alot of nonsense about BO.

Um, we're not.  We're fearing what Bush has done TODAY and for the past 8 years.  We're VOTING to try and undue the damage.  Bush's legacy is already set in the stone of infamy.

All you have to do is ask any 20 year old to discover that it's Bush's policies that have made it harder to pursue the American Dream.  And they are the reason that old corrupt guard is being swept away in this sea change.

I don't consider baseline health care for every citizen an uneccessary entitlement.  I see it as humane and long overdue.

I saw the apathy you mention...until Obama motivated the apathetic young in this election.  Whether he's your man or not, I assume you will join me in saying that this energized movement is anything but apathetic and is good for the country long term.

And as I've said before, "liberal" is just a conservative fear-phrase for "progressive".  And the nature of human society is ultimately always on a slow path to change and progress. 

The idylic times you refer to regarding your father and grandfather were times where women were treated like cattle, where a rich man could kill any poor man and pay a fine, where black men were killed as "less that human", where millions died of diseases we've long since cured, and families had to have lots of children because the odds were that many of them wouldn't live to see adulthood.  Etc. etc.  So, today's accepted values were yesterday's "liberal" values.

And it is natural to be hesitant about change.  We get comfortable in our own skins and change challenges us on who we are.  Quite scary for people who've come to accept certain aphorisms as "truth" rather than just "opinion".  So, as I've said earlier, there is a natural balance between the forces of progress and nostalgia.

I'm talking primarily of Social progress, of course, as ironically, if Bush had been a true conservative, he would have shut down those reckless Wall Street gamblers a long time ago and would have never deregulated, would he?

But as for me, I'm not afraid of change.  Not yet anyway.

If anything, I've attempted to bring about a sense of Justice and/or Revenge for the crimes of the past 8 years.  I don't see as how I have been spreading "fear".   Except to say that I don't believe McCain will "change" anything and that he has shown, with the way he's run this campaign (as opposed to 2000), that he really will be four more years of Bush.  And, 74%+ of the American people do NOT want to see us stay on the same path, regardless of who wins the White House.  So I think Obama is LESS likely to be Bush redux and McCain is MORE likely. 

But that's hardly analogous to all the not very subtle race-baiting lies of "terrorist", "Muslim", etc.  That's fear-mongering at its very worst.  And the results are obvious, as I don't hear people shouting "kill Palin/McCain" at Obama's events at all - let alone on a daily basis.

haha...OK, this is 101.. there wouldnt be these claims.. had he NOT associated with these people...goodness.. you act like its the reps. doing something wrong by bringing up the associations.. dont associate in the first place.. eh?

I suppose its Bushes fault too that he pal'd around with low life's while gaining political power in Chicago?

George Bush and our military has kept YOU safe for 8 years, lest we forget.

When the dems come in, cut our defense budget and we are attacked because of our perceived weak leadership, you bunch are going to feel like a right bunch of idiots.

I'd feel ashamed to say some of the things said in just this thread. I'm almost ashamed to read them.

Aside from Chicago associations, lets look at who else 0bama supports:

Terrible stuff.....but....

I only tend to see all these OB faults on this web site for some reason.  I wonder if it's mostly in your own heads.  I'm sure even after OB is elected and the conservatives lose some more seats in Congress you'll still be sticking to your smears ID.

But you Chicken Littles can keep up your endless the sky is falling drum beat all you want.  Only your choir of sheep who want protection from the big bad liberal internet wolves will be listening anyway.

I think you forgot..alleged?

Your probably seeing them here cos were making them up.. pay no attention, act as if it didn't happen, smoke and mirrors.

Par for the course.

Oh I'm sorry there vStyler you're a journalist now... with a highly reguarded reputation for reporting.

Besides in two more days OB is going to be elected.  What are you phantom producers going to do then?