Christopher Sommers

Join Date 05/2006

AI even more of a coward?? in 1.03??

I made a small little basic map looking like a * basically as a little AI test. I set it to a 4 on 1 hardest AI level agressive level. I have a few small mods mainly to home planets/income/population nothing too big. Anyways so I wait... build a few defenses... still no attacks..... wait some more do some more resource hording while researching. Then I create my fleet and attack the bottleneck central point in which they have a total of around 8400 total supplies between the 4 plays vs my 3594(i have supply mods the last one is real expansive not the point though)

So it is basically a 8400 vs 3594 battle. Which is pretty much a huge 2 on 1 ---- 3 on 2 battle. Pretty much within the first 20 seconds my fleet got in that gravity well they started to split like gangbangers at a drug bust. I fail to see the stronger or more agressive AI that doesnt retreat as easy. My fleet makeup wasnt that special a bunch of anti craft , long range and cap ships. Any thoughts ?

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Thats really strange cause, I always see my AI partner attacking enemy ships. Once I had a fleet ready to attack this planet when my Ai friend went head long into the fight with a massive fleet it was an even fight after a while and the enemy fleet got smaller they started to retreat. So I think if the fight is even they will stay if they know they will get their butt wooped they will run. But the AI was not as aggressive as I thought oh well AI's can't be perfect thats why we have the Internet for! woot!
Oh and there is a new AI setting its called UNFAIR you should try it out.

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I'm still seeing the AI running from me in 1.03 when they should stand and fight, and it's very frustrating. Chasing them down is a pain, but more importantly, they could have seriously given me a run for my money if they would have stayed and fought while reinforcing themselves (whereas my reinforcements would have to come from further away). As it is, they just keep running until they're so weak (militarily and economically) that I just roll over them.

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People somehow miss the point that the game is over 1v1 when when all your fleet and all his fleet battle it out and one is crushed to dust.

It seems to account for research levels as well as several other hidden factors so far as running, but if the game end when if he looses. But yeah running and getting a few ships took wears him down. Wear down or game over, which is it?

If you want to know how the fight would end, just chase, and dont engage, just follow.

See what happens?

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People somehow miss the point that the game is over 1v1 when when all your fleet and all his fleet battle it out and one is crushed to dust.

The AI seems to account for research levels as well as several other hidden factors so far as running, but if the game ends when/if he looses...but yeah running and getting a few ships taken will wear him down. So question is...

Wear down or game over, which is it?

I dont know how to make him fight save for chasing him down while staying back so not to attack or damage...just follow? Maybe he takes a stand sooner or latter? And if you smash him...maybe you know why he ran. If it was a fight to the last 2 ships...maybe you do have something to talk about, but even then...

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Blair Fraser

Join Date 10/2006

+292

I can say with a lot of confidence that the AI should not be retreating more frequently in 1.03 than he was 1.02. Here are the two main reasons.

First, the AI now accounts for allied forces in the gravity well. In 1.02 he didn't account for allies so he'd feel much more threatened and turn tail.

More importantly, we adjusted the retreating theshold. The AI does a rough battle simulation (which accounts for current health levels, research, abilities, armor, dps etc) and calculates the ratio of his performance to the enemies. If this ratio is below the constant he will retreat the force as a whole (well this depends on the importance of the mission here but pretend its a neutral territory where they both want it equally and there are no other major events going on). This value was adjusted from .5 to .25 (which means the enemy is 75% better than him) so by that fact alone he should be 50% LESS likely to retreat. (There are a large number of other factors but this one is the most common).

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The AI is still two much of a coward. It doesn't take into account that you may have all your ships in one fleet, or a weaker empire than the comp, so that it doesn't matter if the comp only severely damages your fleet while losing its own, it can recover and you can't. Pretty lame to be able to take over a computer's larger empire one by one just because the computer won't stand its ground.

Also, the computer really needs to learn how to go around defense turrets, and possibly even strike deeper into territory. It's inexcusable that the computer will prioritize defense turrets as one of its top targets, making them incredibly effective as defense structures against the comp. Even more so, the comp gets scared of them (10-15 is enough to scare off pretty large fleets), giving me time to build up and retaliate against the computer when it could easily have a killing blow.

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Also, the computer really needs to learn how to go around defense turrets, and possibly even strike deeper into territory.

I've had AI bypass some planets and attack weaker ones.

Even more so, the comp gets scared of them (10-15 is enough to scare off pretty large fleets)

I've also had AI fleets pound at my fully developed 35 point defenses until it beat them into submission, even with me constantly building new ones. The old AI would run as soon as you knocked out a few capitals, the new AI stays and even brings in reinforcements until it pummels them to death.

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i was playing a match earlier today and the ai outnumbered me 3:1 he had like 4 cap ships and 100 or so frigates i had 3 cap ships a 10 frigates he retreated as soon he phase jumped in

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My first game vs AI on 1.3, he ran as much as he always did. Boy was I disapointed. The second game, he stayed and fought, and drove me off twice. I was so use to it automatically running, that I actually had to get a "decent" fleet together to win the battle the third time around.

3rd game he ran with a huge fleet vs me at first, then stayed and fought with a smaller fleet later on. My 4rth/current game, he fights like a tiger, but I won. I think I'll try the Unfair setting now, that should give me a challenge. . .

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In 1.02 it worked great to attack their home planet. Then all the computers fleet would prioritize defense of the home planet and come for the big battle.
A little cheesy but still better then chasing the fleet over 500 jumps.

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The AI got smart once in a game im still playing. I had almost my entire fleet fight at one of the AI's planet it was pretty even fight. Out of no where that AI had a fleet hidden and striked my inner planets Ai pissed me off lol. It seems the AI is more agressive in a 1v1 then a team match.

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There is a huge notable difference in the AI. Quite simply put, here's just few of the new things I've seen with the AI that may or may not be my imagination but it certainly happened.

1. The AI can backstab you if you don't have an alliance. And they'll do it at the worst opportune moment for you. I remember screaming while watching my fleet run back 5 planets to counter an AI who warped out his fleet at my home planet before declaring war.
2. The AI will feign a retreat to get your fleet to follow him so his ally can make a rush for your planets and when you try to head back, he will engage you. (probably a coincidence, but damn!!!)
3. The AI attack each other now, no more having everyone attack you right from the beginning and ignoring each other even while their ships are barely 5cm apart.
4. The AI techs up now (At last).
5. The AI will circle around your defenses and attack the weakest point.
6. The AI finally builds defenses in proper positions.

I still notice that they retreat a lot though... but I won't fault them since my fleets are usually much more powerful both in numbers and in technology.

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I FINALLY had a game earlier today during which the AI seemed to behave properly. It actually defended its worlds instead of running away. It even suicided its last remaining fleet in an effort to defend its homeworld. It's the first time I've seen AI actually fly a fleet into a system containing overwhelming forces and put up a fight.

That being said, the AI does seem to spaz out more often than not. Typically it seems to either not build any structures or ships at all, or constructs an infinite fleet of doom within minutes of starting the match.

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If you are beginner like me, the AI does not run away.

Crushes me every time, but who cares still having fun.

Cheers MarkL

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The AI is tricky when there isnt bottle necks. Basicaly like a Lion waiting for you to move then he will move. Overall though the AI has been a coward. Like I said I was way outnumbered between the 2-1 and 3-1 area with it being 4 on 1 comp vs me wise. Im just suprised the Ai hasnt pulled the tactic of instead of retreating just retreat the other way towards one of your planets to try to wipe it out while your tied up. I said somewhere else on these boards if they combined Gal Civ and this game with a lil touch of pax imperia 2's solar systems we would finally have the perfect space strat game.

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I find that in 1.03, after destroying the AI seige frigate, which ever race it happens to be, the AI still retreats, but it takes longer this time than pre 1.03. I was TEC and the AI was Advent, and it has those caps with disabling abilities and it just kept trying to disable my repair platforms and my gauss cannons. but i persisted and managed to destroyed the seige frigates. AI's force had a slight numerical superiority over mine, but it left nonetheless. I thought it was staying for the rest of the invasion party.

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Against a large number of AI players, I have found the AI to be entertainingly inconsistent.

On 1.03 I have found the computer will often jump through my planets until it finds a nice target to attack - ignoring the lesser, better defended but expendable planets it finds on the way.

Annoying (in a good way!), given that I used to only build up defences on my 'frontier' planets - now I need to keep several fleets floating around my 'inner' planets as well.

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