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Multianna
Multianna
Join Date 10/2006
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How does sins handle network

September 18, 2007 2:56:28 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
As its a technical multiplayer beta we are going to have in a few days, id like to know how the game is handling network trafic.

I talked to Craig on IRC, and he told me that the user will be the host, and if the corrent host leaves, the next host will be the one who joined the game first.

But heres my question, does it matter what broadband speed the host has?
Ive been wondering what would happen if a 56k modem user (or very slow broadband) were to replace for the previous host?

Would it lag or will the game try and find another host with better broadband speed?
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Multianna
Blair Fraser
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #1 September 18, 2007 4:19:21 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

The computer speed of all players is the most important factor even if they are not the host. Network speed isn't nearly as important (Edit: though officially we are only supporting broadband as Yarlen reminded me:)). Given that, who the host is doesn't really matter.

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Multianna
Multianna
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #2 September 18, 2007 4:40:19 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
aah i see, thanks

Was thinking it would be like when one was hosting a CS game or any other FPS game, as the hosts speed is very importent, when it has to send and receive the data from all its clients.
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Multianna
Blair Fraser
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #3 September 18, 2007 4:44:32 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Sins uses a different architecture.
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Multianna
Yarlen
Join Date 01/2005
+367 sdemployee
Reply #4 September 18, 2007 4:50:08 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Officially, Sins is only supporting broadband connections as well.
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Multianna
RonLugge
Join Date 05/2004
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Reply #5 September 18, 2007 8:27:44 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Was thinking it would be like when one was hosting a CS game or any other FPS game, as the hosts speed is very importent, when it has to send and receive the data from all its clients.


FPS's generally use a client-host system, whereas RTS's generally use a P2P system (hence the reason desynchs are so deadly dangerous).
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Multianna
Thrawn2787
Join Date 03/2007
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Reply #6 September 18, 2007 8:56:12 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

The computer speed of all players is the most important factor even if they are not the host. Network speed isn't nearly as important (Edit: though officially we are only supporting broadband as Yarlen reminded me:)). Given that, who the host is doesn't really matter.




So if one person has lag they fall behind? That stinks...
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Multianna
RonLugge
Join Date 05/2004
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Reply #7 September 18, 2007 9:04:11 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums



So if one person has lag they fall behind? That stinks...


Thats the way it has to be, unfortunately. Its a lot easier on the network connection to transfer commands between computers (seeds, player orders, and the like) than to transfer positional and status data on all units. In FPS's you can get away with that due to the (relatively) small number of objects to deal with (about one per player, generally), but thats not true of RTS's where thousands of units could be moving about.
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Multianna
Blair Fraser
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #8 September 18, 2007 9:07:26 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Ron Lugge is well versed in game network technology I see
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Multianna
RonLugge
Join Date 05/2004
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Reply #9 September 18, 2007 9:36:20 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Ron Lugge is well versed in game network technology I see


Lol, compliment or sarcasm? I just read. A lot.

I could tell you about the /3GB switch and why it works with some programs and not others, or about how 32 bit windows is limited to less than 4GB's of memory (with all hardware from video card to sound cards stealing some of that limit), but thats just me knowing stuff 'cause its come up
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Blair Fraser
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #10 September 18, 2007 10:22:03 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I was saying that your explanation was correct

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Multianna
EvilTesla-RG
Join Date 08/2007
+21
Reply #11 September 18, 2007 11:00:25 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
hmm,

I realy hope my four year old compy can handle this


and I have a laptop that has a pentium thre (don't worry, it was free)
I wonder if sins will play on that

also I wonder if it will play on a comp I will be gatting monday (also for free) that has windows 2000....


that would be good if it did (not for over internet, just lan wars), but I understand it those old dinosaurse wont run it




I pick up free computer junk like some old ladies pick up cats.
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Multianna
Sinzer
Join Date 09/2007
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Reply #12 September 19, 2007 4:35:39 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
So if one person has lag they fall behind? That stinks...


Well technically everyone falls behind.

As Ron says it is a P2P structure, which generally means that you play at the speed of the slowest PC.

From experience in other RTS games, it would be really useful if this game could include some kind of indication of computer speed.

It would be great if it was like some of the console games, where they do a connection check and then limit the settings. You could have something similar, where the game would do a comp speed check, then limit that player to only 2v2, medium maps or something like that.

The worst thing is entering a game with someone playing on some barely minimum spec system, who brings the game to a crawl in the first five minutes.
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Multianna
Multianna
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #13 September 19, 2007 4:52:52 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I dont like the idea of limiting someone from joining. Best thing to do, would be to show the specs in some way.





So if one person has lag they fall behind? That stinks...


Thats the way it has to be, unfortunately. Its a lot easier on the network connection to transfer commands between computers (seeds, player orders, and the like) than to transfer positional and status data on all units. In FPS's you can get away with that due to the (relatively) small number of objects to deal with (about one per player, generally), but thats not true of RTS's where thousands of units could be moving about.


Was wondering how it were working, thanks for the info
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Multianna
Sinzer
Join Date 09/2007
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Reply #14 September 19, 2007 7:39:44 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I dont like the idea of limiting someone from joining. Best thing to do, would be to show the specs in some way.


It would be good to have a host option that would limit your game to people with the correct specs to enter. Or you could choose to allow the game open to all.

The problem with showing the specs that it ends up in a lot of host prejudice. I have seen a lot of people kicking people because of ping in RTS games, saying 200 ping is too high. Simply because they do not have the internet knowledge, to know that ping is secondary to computer specs in terms of many RTS games.
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RonLugge
Join Date 05/2004
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Reply #15 September 19, 2007 10:24:48 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Heck, even specs can be... less than useful. Give the clockspeed of the CPU, but is it P4? C2D? Athlon? How about memory, but is it some slow dinosaur SDRAM, or a nice, high speed DDR2 1200? Video card is easy enough -- just give the model, most people can figure it out from there -- but the rest of the relevant specs are a headache.

That said, I like the way supcom handles the reporting in-game -- if you type in the proper command, it will tell you who the bottleneck is and if you're the bottleneck it has a field that I think tells you what your system bottleneck is (memory, ram, etc).
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Multianna
P5yy
Join Date 06/2007
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Reply #16 September 19, 2007 10:25:13 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I dont like the idea of limiting someone from joining. Best thing to do, would be to show the specs in some way.


It would be good to have a host option that would limit your game to people with the correct specs to enter. Or you could choose to allow the game open to all.

The problem with showing the specs that it ends up in a lot of host prejudice. I have seen a lot of people kicking people because of ping in RTS games, saying 200 ping is too high. Simply because they do not have the internet knowledge, to know that ping is secondary to computer specs in terms of many RTS games.


This is happening in Supreme Commander alot. In a way , I think a game like Supreme Commander will need a "limiter" because its such a beast to play. Sins on the other hand is waay of this performance eating requirment so im sure it wont be too much of a problem.


Also just a note to any of those oldskool homeworld faithful..its TIME TO UPGRADE YOUR PCS!    

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