didnt i saw a super ship on the trailer???
that one that was making a really big turnado on the planet, out of the gravity wells.
or has that feature been deleted?

Superweapons are good but games that don't need them are even better.


Most games that have super weapons use them as a means to fix a broken element of the game play. Typically defensive structures can't be countered effectively by attacking units... or something of that nature...


games that don't need super weapons are those where precise control of your units allows you to take advantage of the one thing defensive structures can't do... maneuver. I can move my forces around the defensive structure can't.


That should be all the advantage you need to crush the defenses.

Except when you use super weapons to fix the broken game element it means the game always climaxes with an exchange of super weapons or people making desperate raids on a super weapon to stop it.


it's predictable and boring. if you base the game on tactics and a series of UNIT based weapons systems instead of big ol nukes or whatever then it's more interesting. especially if the units are not themselves super unkillable death machines. Because again there's no real tactics to using those... they're big and mean and there is really only one way to use them. MOst of such units don't really have good counters but instead require an equal number or more of super units or a huge mass of lesser units.


Ideally unit balance should force the player to do just that... have a balanced set of units that make up for the weaknesses of other units.


That's the way real battles work. There is no perfect unit. Tanks can be taken down by two soldiers with a rocket launcher... or some guy hiding with a sticky bomb... or some mine you hid under the road... The tank is powerful when used in mass and with infantry and air cover....


The problem I have with super weapons is that they're like "one tank" rolling down the field killing everything no matter what it is... it's stupid.

Everyone here keeps saying balance this and balance that, but you can never really achieve a good state of balance without completly removing all desire for anyone to use a super weapon. What I am saying is that the amount of destruction has to be equal to the cost of building/firing the thing; for the weapon to really be balanced. That means, number 1, that the cost of firing is relative to the target, meaning that the cost comes after the destruction, which is of course no true. Or secondly, that you need a target worth firing at. What if you aren't presented with one? Then there is no reason to build the weapon, and therefore no desire to.

I personally don't want super weapons because I don't want to see stardock's attempt at political consequences of firing such a weapon. Only because no one knows how an interstallar community will react to super weapons being present.

As for super-ships, I think the idea is relativly sound. As long as this ship doesn't have any crazy new power. It's just really big, very well armed, and armoured. The Bismark is a good example or the Kursk.

karma, do you have supcom?

because if you did you would realize that it is not nearly as easy to turtle as you are thinking, there are so many layers upon layers of counters to all sorts of defenses that turtling it only seriously possible through the early parts of the game.

schem minus the tier three super weapons (artillery primarily as the nukes have a powerful counter) and experimental units beyond tier three it is very easy to turtle.

Tier 2 weapons especially with shielding are effective against most attacks... even if you launch a big attack they can have multiple layers of shielding and task engineers to the shields to extend their life.


Furthermore, with a good airforce it's hard to get anything really nasty close to a base. Battleships, all ground based experimentals, and all but the eier 2 AA ships are very vulnerable to tier 3 bombers... and tier 3 fighters knock most air units out of the sky very quickly.



Is it impossible to break through? Of course not... I'm not saying it's impossible... i'm just saying it's easier to build an effective turtle then to crack it. And that's just a fact.

T2 arty base, T2 TMLs, T2 combined force approaches

going around back

bombing runs

Mercies, if you're advent (the horror, the horror)


yes, T3 is the easiest ones to crack defenses with, but to say that the superweapons are there because the ability to turtle is a broken part of gameplay? I think you should get your head checked.
I mean, I should still list the T3 possibilitites

bombers, siege bots, T3 arty bases, nukes dont count whatsoever, but coastal bombardment

the super weapons (artillery is not a superweapon) are there because at the end of the game it can easily default to a war of battle attrition, they're meant as a cleansweap at the end of a game.

supcom's turtling is more than under control, unless you outproduce your enemy and shield and place T2 arties zealously on Isis, but thats an extreme case.

as a general rule if you can do any damage as the attacker in supplement to hitting your enemies forces you've gained a massive upper hand

taking down turtles is as easy as choosing the right side to hit with a few dozen tanks or a bomber run, of course its not the instant-win that the T4s are, but its definately garunteed to crack a turtle

as for shielding and T2 weapons: use mobile artillery, or a close by T2 firing base. if you're having difficulty cracking a turtle in supcom its because you arent going about it correctly, or they've developed some miracle system that to date I've never heard of.

the dev's have a problem with this, because they claim then they would have to balance both games

hopefully they can do that anyhow.

my general point being: superweapons (while commonly used to balance out broken game elements) do not need to be used in this fashion, and work best as just a role of their own.

oh, sounds cool!

karma if you want me to prove you wrong, make another thread for it. for right now stick to the topic, and quit with the childish taunts.

yah, i said that a bagillion threads ago

Its called a firebase... and it works well enough people gave a name to the strategy.

Just bring some mobile shield emitters and get a shield up ASAP -- works wonders. Or, if your Cybran, the mobile stealth generator really works well.

Schem

Id like to battle you in supcom... you may even have lordkosc on your side