Lula posts: 

Jythier, 

The Church teaches when we are baptized we are born again. I know that Protestants are told that when Christ said, "Ye must be born again,", He meant a new heart. 

But that's a most inadequate explanation. For a change of heart means conversion from unbelief to belief in Christ and from morally evil ways to morally good conduct. It therefore means repentance. Now Our Lord did insist on repentance or a change of heart in all who sought baptism, but He did not identify it with Baptism. He said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" St.Mark 16:16. When speaking of the rite (what you call ritual) of Baptism itself, He said, "Unless one is born again of water and the Holy Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of heaven." St.John 3:3. You will notice here that while conversion or change of heart is an interior change in our own dispositions, the new principle of life comes from forces outside us. It is something put into us, and signified by an external rite. The good prepatory dispositions are from us, but the new life is not from us, but from God. The washing with Baptismal water signifies the cleansing of the soul from the disease of sin belonging to children of a guilty race; and the Holy Spirit of God as infusing into our souls a new life which gives us a new birth to a spiritual life of grace far beyond and above the merely natural life secured by natural birth.

........................................................ 

Now, to be valid, Baptism must be performed in the manner determined by Christ who instituted it and it consists of 2 parts, the matter and the form : The matter is the cleansing by water on the one to be baptized and the form is the pronunciation of the words which call the Blessed Trinity. 

The Sacrament of Baptism is validly administered when with the water, whether by immersion, sprinkled or poured on the person and at the same time the words are pronounced: "I baptize thee in the name of the Father, of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." 

This is the Baptismal rite...what according to you is a "ritual problem"??? ...the Baptismal ritual you're slamming as not necessary for salvation? The one you claim the Church created by which to be saved?

If so, then it is you who has looked the Bible but doesn't understand it for the Church did not create Baptism or the Baptismal "ritual"...Christ did. 

In St.John 3:3, Our Lord spoke "of water and the Holy Spirit." He explicitly commanded Baptism be given in St.Matt. 28:18-19 and that is exactly what the Apostles did. Peter baptized Cornelius and his family in Acts. 10:47. Philip did the same with the eunuch Acts 8:38. The first baptisms on Pentecost numbered 3,000. St.Peter said, "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." 

For the ancient Israelites and Jews before Christ, God instituted the religious rite of circumcision, the outward sign by which they were made a covenant people. Circumcision was a type of Baptism. By circumcision man belonged to God's Old Covenant people, and by Baptism he belongs to the New Covenant and new birth through Jesus Christ.    

The significance of St.John the Baptist's Baptism of Penance is that it was the baptismal bridge of the Old to the New Covenant. The transition was at hand. In St. Matt. 3 we read St. John the Baptist called upon the people to "prepare the way of the Lord" through the baptism of penance as the "kingdom of God", the reign of Christ in His Church and in their individual souls, was "at hand". 

St. Thomas Aquinas teaches the New Covenant sacrament of Baptism was instituted at the moment Christ was baptized by St. John the Baptist. That when the waters of St. John's baptism touched Christ at that moment water itself was sanctified. 

Here's the passage and note the water and the Blessed Trinity are present.

St. Matt 3:6,13,16,17---- 
Those from Jerusalem and all Judea in the area of the Jordan River went out to meet St.John the Baptist, v.6, “And were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins...13 Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to the Jordan, unto John, to be baptized by him. 16 and Jesus being baptized forthwith came out of the water, and lo, the heavens were opened to him; and he saw the spirit of God descending as a dove and coming upon him. 17 and behold a voice from Heaven saying, This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased.” (here we have the Blessed Trinity all present--the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost.)

We know Our Lord Jesus Christ is the greatest teacher of all. The time had come that He willed to appear openly as the Messias and He began His public life by being baptized by St. John the Baptist. Why did He let Himself be baptized? He certainly didn’t require penance as He was sinless but He was obedient to the ceremonial requirements of the Old Law (which btw, Acts 15 tells the Council of Jerusalem declared no longer binding.)  He gave us a lesson in humility and obedience and taught us that we too must obey all the New Covenant ordinances of God.

The wonderful events which followed the Baptism of Jesus directly foreshadowed the effects of Christian Baptism. In the Sacrament of Baptism, when the water is poured and the specific words are pronounced, the Holy Ghost comes down on the person, gives him sanctifying grace, and infuses on him the 3 theological virtues of Faith, Hope and Charity. By the grace of Baptism, through "water and the Holy Spirit", or by Baptism of desire or blood, God adopts man to be His beloved child, and opens for him the way to heaven. 

The Protestant doctrine is of course that baptism is not NECESSARY for salvation but it is a COMMAND of Jesus Christ to those who have been saved.  So we get baptized, but it does not cost us salvation if we don't.

"Baptism is not necessary for salvation" is a sub-doctrine of Luther's "Sola Fide", saved by faith alone.

Both are false teachings on so many levels. It's hard to understand how anyone can believe and practice them. 

For example, on the Scriptural level, St. Mark 16:15-16 alone demolishes it. 

"And He (Christ) said to them, Go into all the  world and preach the Gospel to the whole of creation. 16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved; but he who believes not shall be condemned."

Verse 15 contains what is called the "universal apostolic mandate" parallelled by St. Matt. 28:19-20 and St.Luke 24:46-48.

Verse 16 teaches that as a consequence of the proclamation of preaching the Gospel, BOTH Faith and Baptism are indespensible pre-requisites for attaining salvation.

Here Our Lord explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism for salvation. Baptism is absolutely necessary for salvation.

Set St.Mark 16:15-16 against what you said here. ..."Christ commanded Baptism to those who have been saved." It refutes it doesn't it? So you believe and practice Luther's false teaching over the Gospel according to St.Mark? 

If you can't see that, then read Titus 3:5-7, "Not by the works of justice, which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the laver of regeneration, and renovation of the Holy Ghost.6 Whom He had poured fort h upon us abundantly, through Jesus Christ, our Savior. 7 That, being justified by His grace, we may be heirs, according to hope of life everlasting."

Verses 5-6, he's referring to Baptism and verse 7 proves it's not happening "to those who have been saved" as Protestantism teaches. Rather, we are being justified by His grace, we may be heirs (to the kingdom of God) according to the hope of life everlasting.

There are several other Scriptural passages that completely knock out these two Protestant doctrines. Tradition by way of the Church Father's writing and sermons also refute them. 

Protestantism is building up false assurances in these doctrines and offering conditions of salvation radically opposed to Scripture. No where is full assurance of salvation promised to anyone. Our Lord said, "If thou wilt enter life, keep the commandments." He told us to "Watch and pray, that ye not enter into temptation." Why, if one is fully assured of salvation?

Matter of fact, Our Lord manifestly tells us that there is a danger of forfeiting salvation. St.Paul told the Corinthians that "He that thinks himself to stand, let him beware lest he fall."

This lesson is crystal clear in what he wrote to the Hebrews 6:4-5 "It is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good Word of God, and the powers of the world to come, and are fallen away, to be renewed again by penance, crucifying again to themselves the Son of God and making Him a mockery."

According to Protestantism, people who have been enlightened, tasted the good word of God, etc. should have had full assurance of eternal life ....yet they fell.

St.Peter, too, tells us of those who had made a shipwreck of the Faith. He's talking of Christians who had accepted Jesus as their Savior.

Jesus redeemed everyone; He didn't save everyone. Don't confuse redemption with salvation. 

Luther's saved by faith alone is of no avail. Read St.James 2 if you don't believe it. Mere believing in Him and calling upon Him is not enough to assure salvation. Believing in Him and calling upon the name of the Lord while failing to do His Father's will  ends in damnation.We have to labor and strive to fulfill all the obligations imposed upon us by God. While Salvation is a gift of God; it is not an unconditional gift. He laid down conditions and having free will, we are not compelled to fulfill them. But with the help of His grace, we have to work out our salvation by good works in fear and trembling.   

A conversion to Christ requires more than that to save us. Either He is Lord of all or He is not. When we acknowledge Him as Lord, as King of kings, we oblige ourselves to receive all He taught as a rule of life. ANd St.John 21:25 tells us that all He taught isn't found only in the Bible.

St.Paul links conduct with salvation and lists for us those things which constitute deadly sin and threaten our salvation. Gal. 5:19-21. these serious violations of the law of God are called mortal sins becasue sins of this gravity take away sanctifying grace, life in the soul and thus bring death to it. 

Read Romans 1:29-32.

In light of the revealed truth in all these Scriptural passages, no one who claims---that Baptism is not necessary for salvation and that Baptism is a command of Christ to those who have been saved, and that for those who don't get Baptised are still saved,--- cannot be taken seriously.